 MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE |
| JURIST >> LEGAL NEWS - WORLD LAW >> Discussion >> Milosevic Trial Discussion Archive |
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Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic is on trial for war crimes in the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia at The Hague. This marks the first time a head of state has been personally prosecuted before an international criminal court.
Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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- discussion archive
- Saturday December 06, 2003 at 3:58 am
Godfred
Milosevic is the only one who seems interested in the truth coming out. HE is not the one calling for closed sessions. In fact, he is vehemently opposed to them.
That suggests that the ones who don't want the truth to come out are the ones calling for secret sessions. And the ones who are doing that are obvious! Even the UN won't release some of its confidential reports to its own "court"!
No doubt because someone is blocking them with a veto power. And I'd hazard a guess it's not the Russians or the Chinese. So who has a vested interest in scret sessions and NOT releasing information? Why Britain, US and France of course! Particularly as French was the lingua franca around Srebrenica it seems.
D Jovanovic
It should be obvious to May and the other two dolts that compared to US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, Kosovo was a walk in the park if proportionality is any criterion. The US chiefs say there are 5000 Saddamists causing all the trouble. So 150,000 marines to subdue 5000 Saddamists is kind of like a little over the top maybe? Especially when one considers the massive firepower used.
In comparison, Milosevic was a paragon of restraint when it came to battling the KLA insurgents.
And if we take the Sharons of this world into account, Milosevic should have got the Nobel Peace Prize for his restraint. Maybe he should have gone into Albania and wiped out the terrorist KLA cells and bulldozed half of Albania like Israel is doing with the Palestinians to even merit a similar level of consideration as Sharon. To be sure he might have slaughtered a few hundred children as well if he wanted to avoid the Inquisiton at the Hague.
So he must be really at the hague because he was giving the anti terrorism game a bad name by being too soft and restrained? It might also have helped if he had gone half way across the world as well rather than trying to get rid of the terrorists in his own house. The former seems to be quite OK, the latter a big NO-NO ! Particularly if it conflicts with some predatory nation's national interests.
Maybe big national corporations and states who are too powerful should be subject to anti-trust and anti-monopoly type laws like they've been trying to enact in the US re Microsoft. They create an uneven playing field and become too predatory in their market behaviour. They certainly are a stifler of free market competition and choice by swallowing up the smaller companies and states.
It remains to be seen how far the new ICC contributes to that same US notion of "a level playing field". The ICTY has proved a dismal failure.
David
Oztralia - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 4:52 am
So the US sets conditions for Weasley Clark to testify. But what would happen if the Chamber didn't agree to those conditions and held the hearing in open session?
The US would withhold Clark's testimony as it is withholding lots of other info.
The question is whether the Chamber can compel the US to release documents and info like it is compelling Serbia?
In theory, yes! In practice, no! The question arises, why not? And the clear answer is that it is because the US pays the Chamber's bills and salaries.
So Serbia has to comply and the US doesn't? No problem! That's what we call equality before the law.
And that's how fair this whole shindig at the ICTY is both morally, legally and everyway you can think of. Even some of the ICTY people themselves are pissed off about the "special treatments" handed out to various parties.
If the Chamber were truly independent, it would simply order the US to provide the witnesses, the docs and the info it requires. Else, the US fails to cooperate with the ICTY and cops the same sanctions as anyone else who fails to cooperate. Period!
That's of course if it REALLY had a genuine LEGAL standing on the international justice scene. As it is, the US sets the terms and conditions for its cooperation. And this is not allegedly a two bit court, it's supposedly the court of the United Nations and the international community of which the US is supposedly a leading democratic member who upholds the principles of democracy, law and order.
Well, welcome to the New World Order! Might is right after all. And we all thought the American Way of justice and democracy was better than Bolshevism, Fascism or Nazism. Silly us!
David
Oztralia - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 11:36 am
In today’s article in NYTimes, Marllise Simons, describes the sentencing of Serbian general Stanislav Galic to 20 years in prison. The sentence is for the cruel siege of the city of Sarajevo.It is interesting to note that type article never mentions the three most “famous” incidents: Bread line Massacre, The Markale market 1 and 2. I would have thought that the defense would have brought these issues in the open.
Perhaps I do not have the transcripts of the trial and it was discussed. If it was, has anybody brought in the evidence that Muslims themselves have cause these self inflicting massacres?
D. Jovanovic, physicist
USA - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 1:27 pm
Gosp.Jovanovic . The pagliacci court and the pagliaccio maggiore aka mr.May had long time ago decided to careless about evidence , reasons , facts , logic , common sense and whatever can be used by an accused to defend himself . This is not about punishing a crime with maximum severity , this is to hit hard in Serbian proud heritage and brake their spirit and love for freedom , this is pure and simple cultural and spiritual genocide . All the rest is tongue syrup .
M P
Panama - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 3:40 pm
I agree with David's assessment of the RESTRAINT shown by the FRY Gvt. and President Milosevic in particular (December 06, 2003 at 3:58 am). The (in)famous incident at Racak in January 1999 is in fact an example of restraint on part of the FRY and Serbian forces!I also fully agree that (for obvious reasons) Milosevic is "vehemently opposed to closed sessions" at the ICTY, and is not the one calling for them, - nor is he likely to do so in future (I suppose). Did I ever say anything as to the contrary, David?
D. Jovanovic asks whether "in view of recent occurencies in Iraq closely resembling events in Kosovo prior to the NATO attack in 1999 (such as the event in Samarra last Sunday), can Milosevic (in defense of his own actions) exploit these as examples (of a level of military response) justified by the situation? (December 05, 2003 at 11:53 am).
Well, - I wonder - but I am not a lawyer. Perhaps he 'can/could', I suppose, - but he hasn't (as far as I know); and I doubt that Milosevic would actually do that. Why would he?
It is a sad fact that 'nowadays' the U.S. Gvt. is taking (military) action in Iraq (and elsewhere) which compares very badly (in level of idiocy, cruelty etc.) with any inappropriate action taken by anybody anywhere...and we should take due note of that of course. But one should not necessarily 'exploit' this in defense of any action taken previously by someone else - or did I misunderstand your question, D. Jovanovic?
Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 5:44 pm
You understood me pretty well Mr. Louis -JensenI would call this “reductio ad absurdum”. If US policy protagonists find the activities in Iraq justifiable than why id Milosevic accused of having the Serbian army doing the same. ( In fact I do not believe they did act the same).
On the other hand if the opposition cries foul over Serbian activities bringing Milosevic into an international court, well then, Bush belongs there too.
D. Jovanovic, physicist
USA - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 5:50 pm
I think that D Jovanovic may have suggested that if the Iraq scenario is considered Kosher by international law, then the Kosovo response by Milosevic was even MORE Kosher as far as international standards are concerned. So if the US is not in court, why should Milosevic be in court?
It's a RELATIVE concept and is not to do with the ABSOLUTE question of whether EITHER approach is OK.
D Jovanovic's question merely highlights the BIAS displayed by the "international justice" system.
9 kids were killed in Afghanistan today, according to BBC and CNN as the US chased a "suspected" terrorist. It's interesting how they become "accidental or collateral damage" when it comes to the US, or Israel for that matter, but DELIBERATE slaughter when they ascribe such things to Milosevic's efforts in combatting terrorism.
A bit of CONSISTENCY in approach wouldn't do any harm, would it? Unless of course MP Panama is correct and the objectives of international justice in the ICTY is, as he puts it, geared for entirely different objectives than justice. How is Sarajevo or Dubrovnik or elsewhere for that matter different than the sieges of Baghdad, the whole of Iraq, all of Afghanistan and for that matter all of YU, directed and performed by the greatest military force in history?
A siege is a siege is a siege. And a 2000lb bomb is a 2000lb bomb. And that's a bit bigger proportionally than a howitzer or a tank shell! Milosevic's action are simply just chickenfeed when it comes to it, and when one takes sanctions against the entire population of a country into account, the proportionality of Milosevic's actions pales into insignificance!
Ask Madeline "we think 500,000 dead children in Iraq is worth it" Albright. When is she going to the Hague?
David
Oztralia - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 5:56 pm
Apart from the above, Milosevic was defending his own HOME directly threatened by terrorist force. YU and Iraq never threatened any of those who attacked them, except in the imagination of those "willing" to spread murder and mayhem for their own political and economic objectives.
David
Oztralia - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 6:27 pm
Press Release . Communiqué de presse(Exclusively for the use of the media. Not an official document)
JUDGEMENT IN THE CASE THE PROSECUTOR V. STANISLAV GALIC STANISLAV GALIC SENTENCED TO 20 YEARS’ IMPRISONMENT
Reaed here the decending judge's opinion it is an eye opener.
http://www.un.org/icty/pressreal/2003/p807-e.htm ,p> The following URL points to all cases. Look wor Galic case. You will find easily all the info that you are looking for. Not exacltly everiting. Most important is very hard to find. The subnissions of the defence are not easy to find. For example. All the decisions of the judges are grouped under Judgements, Decisions and Orders. But defence submissions are not there. If one has to find them or only to start guessing what they are about he/she has to read all the transcripts. Isn't this interesting.http://www.un.org/icty/cases/indictindex-e.htm
Pera Bora
Ottawa
Camnada - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 6:31 pm
More information withheld on the basis of "national interest".
http://www.independent.org/tii/news/021202Stinnett.html
Makes you wonder why it's NOT in the national interest to have the truth come out. Why is it not in the interest of the people of a nation to know the truth? Why should the truth be hidden from the people?
Even Joint US Congressional Committees are not entitled to the truth.
So who the hell do these Committees represent if not the Congress and the people who elected the Congress? Seems like there's something/someone superior to the people who can veto the people's right to know!
So who are THEY who are so superior to the people and their representatives in Congress?
Tinned Mushroom
Bulldust Land - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 6:52 pm
WHEN IS MADELEINE ALBRIGHT GOING TO THE HAGUE?(David/(D.Jovanovic), December 06, 2003 at 5:50 pm).
Well, gentlemen - she's already before the Grand Jury, - and will not be able to evade responsibility:
"...If war crimes were carried out over Yugoslavia...then those who committed these crimes have to be held accountable...
...what came here before the public eye, thanks to this sorrowful trial, put all of those people responsible before a Grand Jury that consists of the entire public opinion, - and they will not be able to evade responsibility for what they did.
I am convinced of that...
(Slobodan Milosevic in his opening statement.
The Hague, February 2002. Trial Transcripts, Page 507).
Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 7:35 pm
Except the Grand Jury of public opinion has no means of sanction or punishment as has the Grand Jury of the ICTY. So Madeline goes free, not even a good behaviour bond. And she gets to keep her booty too.
Still, I guess there's always something called Karma we can rely on, but it doesn't really do much for alleviating the helplessness of the Grand Jury of public opinion.
And one certainly would not rely on Madeline's sense of consciousness and guilt to keep her awake at night.
David
Oztralia - Saturday December 06, 2003 at 9:40 pm
On more than one occasion while U.N. ambassador, Albright yelled at U.N. Secretary-General Boutros-Ghali that he must not publish the report about Israel's bombing of the U.N.-run refugee camp in Qana, Lebanon, in April 1996, which killed more than 100 refugees. The U.N. report said that the attack was not a mistake. She warned the Secretary-General that if the report came out, the U.S. would veto him for his second term. The report came out, and so did Boutros Boutros-Ghali. (Despite the unanimous support of all 14 other members of the security council)
Dan B
Canada - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 7:01 am
Justice at the ICTY?Bosnian Serbs murdered by Bosnian Muslims and the ICTY convicts Bosnian Serb General Galic for the ‘breadline massacre’: among other matters.
Next in line: Milosevic.
A solid principle of criminal law is the maxim: ‘Beyond reasonable doubt’. How do these 21st century charlatans get away with it?
Peter Taylor
Herts/UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 8:13 am
Political Power Comes out of the Barrel of the Gun
Chairman Mao Tse-Tung
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 8:15 am
Watch out they do you with the checkbook what the Nazis used do to with the gun
Fritz Lang
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 8:16 am
G C
SG - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 1:23 pm
Eee bah gumm - not much discourse here any more
Farmer Giles
UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 2:55 pm
Farmer Giles:Try the following article for discussion you ignoramous. Its because of the likes of you that there is no proper jusitce in this world: And the likes of Blair trample all over justice. I suppose your motto is:
'ear all, see all say nowt!
Eat all, drink all, pay nowt!
If tha duz owt for nowt
Then do it for thissen?
Peter Taylor
Herts/UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 2:57 pm
THE SUNDAY MIRROR (UK):BUYS A BAG OF SEMTEX FROM NEW VARIANT KLA TERRORISTS ON THE UNDERSTANDING IT WAS TO BE USED BY THE IRA TO KILL AND MAIN BRITISH CITZENS.
A TERRIFYING threat to Britain's security can today be revealed by the Sunday Mirror. With the country on its highest-ever state of alert amid fears of a Christmas terror strike our investigators infiltrated a cell of Muslim extremists in Kosovo and bought enough Semtex to blow up Oxford Street and the Houses of Parliament or down 40 Lockerbie jets.
Our 13.5kg haul of Semtex - in 108 sticks - is one of the biggest ever seized from terrorists and could have potentially armed 30 suicide bombers. Posing as members of the Real IRA, we were also offered three shoulder-held missile launchers, an anti-aircraft gun, and enough machine guns, hand grenades and landmines to equip a small army. We made our deal in Kosovo, a breeding ground for fanatics with al-Qaeda links.
Our contact was the deputy commander of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) Niam Behljulji, known as Hulji. The group were trained by Bin Laden's men. Astonishingly, we met him under the noses of the British Army and UN forces - who remain as peacekeepers following Kosovo's bloody war with Serbia.
Hulji, is said to supply terrorists across Europe and has been accused of massacring Serbian women and children during the war. He even posed grinning for a photograph, holding the severed head of one his victims. (Here’s another example of this apparently frequent heinous crime of terror committed by Sadik Chuflaj of the KLA).
He told us: "I can give you enough Semtex for a small war. Do you need it for terrorism?"
Our investigation, carried out with Channel 5 sleuth Donal MacIntyre for his series MacIntyre's Millions, began when we arrived in Kosovo posing as members of the Real IRA. Our first contact was with a Mafia arms dealer called Sinbad Sadkutz, who acts as a middleman for Hulji.
Sadkutz arranged a meeting with Hulji in a KLA-run cafe which was surrounded by armed guards and had been swept for "bugs". He then offered us an anti-aircraft missile similar to one used by Iraqi dissidents last week to hit a US DHL cargo plane as it landed in Baghdad.
We next met Sadkutz in a Mafia-run brothel called The Massage Club, and agreed to buy 15kg of Semtex for £10,000.
To make sure the deal went through smoothly, Hulji insisted that we hand over a "human deposit" hostage and £7,500 in euros. Our "deposit" was my fellow investigator Dominic Hipkins. He was to be held in a terrorist-owned bungalow - opposite the British ambassador's residence in Pristina - while the deal was sorted out. Four days later Sadkutz took our man to collect the Semtex from his nearby home and the pair returned to the bungalow, the explosives packed into a sports holdall.
Following our investigation, with the whole country on red alert, 12 Kosovo policemen were arrested on terrorist charges. The officers, said to be members of a secret cell aiding Kosovan extremists, are suspected of plotting to blow up a bridge and a power station. Sadkutz was arrested on Thursday by British police operating in Kosovo. And there were strong rumours last night that Hulji had been assassinated for compromising the KLA's terror operations.
Report by Graham Johnson Investigations Editor, 7 December 2003
The fantasy world created for us by Blair - ‘I will wipe out terrorism wherever it occurs’ and del Ponte - ‘No evidence to indict KLA leaders for Kosovo terror’ - is at last being exposed by at least two elements of the British media. Dare we hope for more?
Blair slaughtered Serbs in support of KLA terror and incredibly continues to support it with British troops in Kosovo and del Ponte’s collaboration: by her refusal to do her judicial duty and indict those responsible for leading the reign of KLA terror in Kosovo.
This vain unprincipled cowardly man would put the whole British nation in danger of terror attack rather than admit his serious mistake in abandoning a supreme principle when he supported KLA terror with his own terror in Kosovo in 1999. Rather than admit his error and “wipe out” continuing KLA terror by having the ICTY indict its leaders and senior commanders Blair tries to ignore his crime by remaining silent and inactive: This in spite of his much vaunted claim to ‘Wipe out terror wherever it occurs’.
How much longer will it take for the British people to recognise and correct this massive wrong done to the Serbian people - mainly because of the duplicity and stupidity of Blair - and thus abandon the farcical Trial of Milosevic at the ICTY: for defending his country from a vicious terrorist insurgency. How much longer will it take before we see the real villains in the dock at del Ponte’s so-called court of justice: For how many more years must we endure her false promises to indict the KLA leaders: For how much longer will Kosovo’s police force be staffed by senior officers such as Chuflaj who decapitate people for fun? History will not treat kindly this massive injustice brazenly committed in the name of ‘justice’.
Peter Taylor
Herts/UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 5:06 pm
Astonishing article. I wonder if Mr. May reads the mirror.
Ian Davis
Waterloo
Ontario, Canada - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 5:39 pm
Re: Report by Graham Johnson Investigations Editor, 7 December 2003
If Graham Johnson can find these people, why can't Blair Bush and the whole of NATO?
Because they don't want to?
They didn't have much trouble finding them when they wanted a war in Kosovo or Bosnia!
When Milosevic found them, they screamed humanitarian abuse and sent him to the Hague for finding them and getting rid of them.
Go figure!
David
Oztralia - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 6:12 pm
Thats it¡¡¡¡ today on Fox news "Sadam delivered chemical weapons to the front with the fedayeen to be used against the invading forces , according to some Iraki officer who also was the insider that informed about the 45 minute readiness" looks like the scenario and script are ready and pretty soon is going to be !show time¡ . We mast get our pop corn , sodas and wait for this new roar of the mountains to see a mouse come out
M P
Panama - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 6:27 pm
By the way , any thing wrong with Afghan children ? any new pandemy that can be passed to western children ? or is it just oooops¡ 7 male 2 female playing marbles , blown away !no problema¡ ICC won't reach us . that is bravery , "zupak" Rumsfeld smile you are not in "candid camera"
Me again
Same Position - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 7:38 pm
MP:Today the Telegraph UK also published a huge article on the source of Blair’s claim that Iraq’s WMD’s could be launched within “45 minutes”. It also devoted its leader to the same cause under the heading: ‘The Truth at Last’: What a joke! Pity the Telegraph doesn’t have the gumption of the Mirror to produce some cogent truth on real threats of terror.
The Telegraph names Iraqi Lt Col al-Dabbagh as the source but other media are already dismissing his authenticity.
No matter how much the media barons attempt to push the lies on behalf of their respective government administrations in this matter they cannot get around the devastating and insurmountable fact that weapons available for deployment within “45 minutes” have not been found in more than nine months: that is almost 400,000 minutes simply to locate them at reasonably obvious launching sites!
There must be an awful lot of stupid people in the West. We are asked to believe by the likes of Blair that: ‘Only 45 minutes were required to distribute vast quantities of deadly chemical and biological substances from their factories or storage areas to a large numbers of missile launching sites or vehicles with a large number of missiles. Not to mention the time required to load, arm and aim these missiles’. Yet not one single missile or deadly substance has been located in some 400,000 minutes? It’s a relatively simple problem or procedure: location, location, location …
If you’re looking for real terrorists try Kosovo: see the evidence in today’s Mirror. If you seek those who aid and abet these real terrorists try Blair and del Ponte.
Blair must believe in Fairies. I wonder what he’s asked Santa Claus to bring him for Christmas?
Peter Taylor
Herts/UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 8:08 pm
Killings in RamadiTwo days before the end of Ramadan, just as they were about to break their fast, the family was interrupted by two groups of US troops from the 82nd Airborne Division bursting into the house, from opposite sides. The family dived for cover and the troops fired on each other, killing three of their own. They then separated the women and girls, putting them in an outside kitchen building of the home near Ramadi.
Three (innocent) men, brothers Ibrahim and Sabah Odai and their cousin, were taken outside the house, forced face down in the mud and shot dead.
If this report is true - one more atrocity in a long list committed by Blair’s coalition forces - how long will it be before Blair is kidnapped and hauled before the ICC to account for these dreadful and unnecessary killings.
According to the precedent set by the ICTY.
Peter Taylor
Herts/UK - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 8:49 pm
Blair.- 1 ea 55 gal drum of eye drops / Del Ponte some "good stuff" to make her see better
M P
Panama - Sunday December 07, 2003 at 9:43 pm
Blair is no Cromwell . . . and George is no king.
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Monday December 08, 2003 at 7:37 am
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/bodansky1.html
And of course no-one knew ANYTHING about this!
They just sponsored it and helped it along in the name of humanitarianism and democracy. Just like in Afghanistan. Right?
David
Oztralia - Monday December 08, 2003 at 9:44 am
From the report quoted by David above'The history of Yugoslavia's Muslim community has been one of victimization by the Slavic majority.'
Er great report...
Sam Stevens
England - Monday December 08, 2003 at 9:56 am
They are all a bunch of backward natives - not like us civilised people but the worst of them are those muslums we are so afraid of...Yugoslavia thats a state in Africa isnt it?
Quick march the country that invented the white hood wants to lecture other countries on what is right.
Personally speaking I found the British position under the conservatives better.
Sam Stevens
England - Monday December 08, 2003 at 10:39 am
Iraq to Create Tribunal to Prosecute Hussein War Crimes
These trials are a matter of global concern and fundamental importance to the Middle East," said Paul van Zyl, director of country programs for the International Center for Transitional Justice. "They should send a strong human rights signal to Syria, to Iran, to the Saudis, that one day they could be held to account by their own people."
Read it and digest it!
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Monday December 08, 2003 at 12:20 pm
HISTORY WILL BE MY JUDGE (Blair, march 2003).Peter,
- if it were NOT true that in Ramadi 'US forces executed 3 civilians in cold blood' just two days before the end of the Ramadan (as reported by Jo Wilding), - then what?
Would one more atrocity in a long list make any difference as far as the fate of mr. Blair is concerned?
(I suggest that we need to be clear in our minds about the implications before setting out to verify Jo Wildings's report - which is due to a second-hand source anyway, as I understand it).
Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K - Monday December 08, 2003 at 3:19 pm
What good or great accomplishment has the UK gotten under Blair , besides the pharaonic lies told to the British people so they can be draged into aggression and violation of international law in the name of an egomaniacal desire of figuration to overcome an inferiority complex . Eagles don't flock phony Tony and you ain't worth one feather of the two headed Eagle in The Hague .
M P
Panama - Monday December 08, 2003 at 3:57 pm
Before I go , Blair is such a good politician that even the commonwealth has started to desintegrate , way to go Tony I'm waiting for the balcanization of the UK , is Ireland a reasonamle start to your srandards?
M P
Panama - Monday December 08, 2003 at 10:08 pm
I don't think the problems with Zimbabwee can be laid at Britain's door. And I'd not wish the Irish problems on the Irish.
Ian Davis
Waterloo
Ontario, Canada - Monday December 08, 2003 at 10:32 pm
I wouldn't put much weight on the Telegraph these days. Connect the dots.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1843201.stm
http://www.rense.com/general45/qwe.htm
http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html
Ian Davis
Waterloo
Ontario, Canada - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 4:35 am
Maybe they should lay Zimbabwe's problems at Slobo's door too. He seems to be regarded as responsible for just about everything else anyway.
That's how it goes when 95% of a country is "owned" by foreigners. That's how it went in Iran before they kicked the Shah out and got screwed for thinking their national resources belonged to their people.
That's quite a mistake, isn't it? And anybody who makes it pays the price. Just ask Allende in Chile, the OTHER 9/11 victim of terrorism who tried the same, or any one of a dozen Latin Americans!
Funny isn't it how all these independence minded guys tend to lean towards "suicide" or "accidents" as a ready solution.
Maybe few have noted that Pinochet was "too sick" to stand extradition to Spain for trial but Strugar, for example, is being literally ripped off a dialysis machine in Belgrade to be dragged off to the Hague. Justice no doubt can't wait(for the victim to die)!
Humanitarianism at its finest!
David
Oztralia - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 5:12 am
FYIThe link to the KLA Semtex story:
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13700443_method=full_siteid=106694_headline=-WE-BUY-BAG-OF-SEMTEX-FROM-TERRORISTS-name_page.html
Michael Thomas
London
UK - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 7:23 am
MP you appear to get too excited by the prospect of picking the scabs of Britains foreign policy.Ireland and the Commonwealth are not good examples for Blair. There isnt much that anybody could do on either front.
We in the UK are probably more concerned with the European issue. Although I am a Eurosceptic I would like to see a European army from a global (bipolar / multipolar) persepctive.
S Stevens
England - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 9:34 am
England will fight to the last drop of European blood
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 10:21 am
Like in Casino , ask the Poles . Btw , which "empire" was the real loser in WWII ? like Spain in the 19th century , lost a whole continent without even noticing it.
M P
Panama - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 11:01 am
The tribunal video websites have not been updated now since Wednesday last week (English and Serbian version). Any info on that?
Dan B
Canada - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 12:34 pm
Dan B.,There was no real hearing to speak of last Thursday. The so-called "court" was in closed-session for the whole day (except for a few minutes at the beginning where Milosevic was objecting to the closed-session).
And today Mr. Robinson was ill so the hearing was cacelled today. Therefore, there has really been nothing for them to update since last Wednesday.
Andy Wilcoxson
Washington, United States - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 2:00 pm
Sorry, they have not been updated as of December 2nd.
Dan B
Canada - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 3:59 pm
Excuse me, but this link:http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=2
(as provided by Andy W. to D. Jovanovic)
does not seem to take me to the new JURIST discussion board.
Then how do I get there, please?
Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 7:39 pm
On Dec. 1st the German TV broadcaster WDR aired a horrible film about the trial at 10.30 pm.
The film showed some "well"-chosen sequences from the minutes of the Milosevic-"trial". The testimony of six witnesses who testified during the Kosovo-stage of the Prosecution case was deliberately cut into pieces that were aimed to confirm the common prejudices against President Milosevic and Serbia.
I sent a detailed analysis of this piece of propaganda to WDR on Dec. 3rd, which is posted (in German) on .
Today (Dec. 09.) I obtained an answer from one of the responsible editors. He accuses me of being prejudiced and being an adorer of President Milosevic, although I had not written a single word which could lead to this (true) latter suggestion.
He does not refer to even one of my numerous supported allegations against content and method of the film.
Sebastian Bahlo
Germany - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 7:42 pm
Sorry. My open letter is posted on .
Sebastian Bahlo
Germany - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 7:45 pm
OK forget it. It is posted on www.free-slobo.de
You will find it without following a working link which I am obviously unable to post here.
Sebastian Bahlo
Germany - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 8:04 pm
It is perhaps enlightening to know that the issue of culpability for the break out of World War One still is unresolved.
I am sure the WDR loves Croatia.
Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 9:30 pm
Just goes to show how many centurions one has to get past before one gets to Caesar! Welcome to the 4th Reich, Sebastian.When is Germany going to pass a law forbidding the denial of genocide in YU by the Serbs?
Nowadays calling for ordinary justice at the Hague is equivalent to being a supporter of Hitler and the Nazis! Just like arguing against the goings on in Guantanamo is anti-patriotic/treasonous, subversive of democracy and supportive of terrorism. Soon enough you'll have to get past the brown shirts a'la (U)SA too.
David
Oztralia - Tuesday December 09, 2003 at 10:07 pm
Re: It is perhaps enlightening to know that the issue of culpability for the break out of World War One still is unresolved.
It is resolved by ICTY decree that it was the Serbs who caused WW1. They refused to accept Rambouillet Ver 1 in 1914, just like they refused version 2 (1941) and version 3 in 1999. Just goes to show how incorrigible those Serbs are.
They were responsible for mass slaughters in WW1 and WW2 because they refused to leave their centuries old homes and forced the fascists (Teuton, Croat and Muslim ones) to eradicate them to the tune of some 2 million. Had they been more cooperative the slaughters would not have occurred, hence they are responsible because of their intransigent lack of cooperation. They had the power to stop it, as Lord Owen recently commented.
In order to conceal their plans for a Greater Serbia, they conned the Austro Hungarians into attacking them so the Austro Hungarians would lose the war and Serbia could expand into Austro Hungarian territory by stealth. Fortunately Nazi Germany was awake to them and took back what belonged to its cousins in WW2.
But the Serbs also won WW2 and set about concealing their still active Greater Serbia plans by appointing the "arch Serb" TITO as absolute ruler and then created SIX Republics to hide their Greater Serb pretensions.
But that wasn't enough, they got even sneakier and carved out Kosovo and Vojvodina from Serbia as autonomous provinces to even further pull the wool over Prosecutor Nice's and the ICTY's eyes.
In fact so devious were they that they planted Tito, Kardelj, Bakaric and co (all Non Serbs) as the leaders of YU to cover their tracks! Then they gave Kosovo and Vojvodina veto powers over the Serb parliament itself and finally they incited and tricked the Croats, Muslims, Slovenes, Macedonians etc into secession by force so they could FURTHER extend their Greater Serbia territory. But that was proving a little difficult so they had to trick NATO to assist them in their genocidal campaigns, just like they tricked the Austro Hungarians.
Now that's a REAL Joint Criminal Enterprise for you!
Let me know if you need another EXPERT historical facts witness, Mr Nice, I'd be happy to oblige.
David
Oztralia