MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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• discussion archive

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 3:08 am
  NO ! He is being trialed based on the false accusations.
  
  Janko P
  Republika Srpska/ Bosnia & Herzegovina

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 11:35 am
  It may depend on what you call a "fair trial". I'm sure the court will do its best to present itself as fair to Mr. Milosevich. However, to call the court fair, you must ask them why they are kind of selective. Listening to the prosecutors I was thinking, that with such arguments they actually should have brought to justice absolutely any leader of any country which ever conducted a war (show me a war without atrocities by soldiers... and those soldiers they all have commanders-in-chief, BTW). Therefore, unless every leader of any warring state in the recent history of humankind is (or is going to be) in Hague, well, I feel that it is just not fair. And therefore, I feel that these unfair people cannot really and sincerely be fair to this particular person of Slobodan Milosevich. But they might pretend.
  
  Evgeny Shtefan
  Seoul Herald
  South Korea

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 11:47 am
  Who does finance UN? Who does finance a trial in Hague? If you know the answer on these two questions, you'll get the answer on question Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial!
  
  Peter Jones
  Texas/USA

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 12:29 pm
  Milosevic could undoubtedly make some strong points about the Court's unsafe nature ,in terms of its sponsors and their political stake in his conviction, and double standards, in that major players on other sides are not being prosecuted for the same actions as he is. However, he will, on past performance, make a mess of his defence by denying that any Serbs did anything wrong at all - which is unsustainable, and denying that he was responsible for anything at all, ditto unsustainable. He could nmount an effective case based on context, i.e. not to be judged in isolation and hindsight, but he won't. He is his own worst enemy in terms of legal and political presentation, and will suffer accordingly.
  
  Alistair Fletcher
  United Kingdom

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 4:20 pm
  In the Balkan arena of vicious, implacable nationalism, to single out Serbians and Mil0sevic as "war criminals" is truly not helpful. Insofar as Milosevic says that NATO bombed more hospitals than tanks ( 7 destroyed only), he is quite correct. The War in Kosovo was a pure expercise in that strange Clintonian stage of "smoke-and-mirrors" y that we saw so often in his Presidency -- it had a stange and other-wordly quality, as if one was watching a play or theatre and not a confilict in the real sense. No doubt NATO also had it's part in this play. Some things Milosevic said were very true: the mass exodus of Kosovo Albanians happened after NATO declared "war" on Serbia, this we saw for ourselves. The KLA were, and by their actions in Macedonia, remain a quasi-criminal gang of terrorists. In my opinion it is impossible to get a trial here that is fair, and in any case, the comparison with this Hague trial and Nuremburg is really odious and stupid - the Nuremburg trials were totally diffrent in that the West never colluded with Hitler. This is not the case in Yugoslavia and Milosevic is right to point this out.
  
  Peter Giraudo
  Kenya

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 4:52 pm
  I am looking forward to seeing prosecutors and Milosevic facts under the scrutiny of law. Let us see what survive as a fact and what is an allegation. To many times news media judged Serbian people on the bases of allegation. I wish that this trial is conducted in the American or UK court because they have established procedures and jury compared to Hague tribunal that is changing rules as it goes. Also, maybe Judge Richard May ought to be removed from the panel since he is from Britain and NATO and Britain have bombed Yugoslavia. The panel should be made out of judges that are not from NATO or Russia but independent counties, so that it can be more objective
  
  Anna Turcotte
  Canada

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 6:36 pm
  It is interesting how the Hague just recently ruled that prime ministers of states cannot be tried under international law due to immunity provided by the states they serve-(look up how Ariel Sharon is escaping the far reaching tentecles of the war crimes tribunal). In effect, the ruling reinforces the fact that no leader of any western alliance nation could ever be tried in this court. But, apparently, this law doesn't cover weaker, less influential nations that stand in the way of the west. And one last point; the US just recently upheld a ruling in congress that no American can ever be tried in an international court of law-thus america is above international law. We are to assume that the US will administer justice as it sees fit. So is Milosevic receiving a fair trial-take a guess.
  
  Marko
  Illinois, USA

• Friday February 15, 2002 at 9:31 pm
  Now, first we have the issue of FAIRNESS. I mean, are we still such impudent children as to actually believe that FAIR refers to something in REALITY that is not a summertime country carnival with cotton candy and a ferris-wheel. Yes, we brilliant humans are incredibly well evolved in our self-justifying and other-villifying rituals and practices. Show me someone with a pulse, and I'll show you a well-intended cheat and liar who sees him-/her-self as more correct than those who, for whatever reason, oppose him or her. As for History,...well when will violence and bloodshed EVER end when I am compelled to maintain my Honor by clinging to ancient blood-oaths for vengance and retribution against the ones who slayed my son, brother, father, grand-father, and so on,....as they raped my daughter, sister, mother, grand-mother, and so on. WAR IS HELL, and as long as we have WAR ON EARTH, life on Earth will be HELL. There is NO WAY to effectively WAGE, much less WIN, an overt or openly covert WAR without a bloodying of hands. To expect that blood can be shed without staining red all of the "white gloves" involved is sheer lunacy whose only purpose is to offer us a loop-hole in our rationale that MIGHT, someday, lead us to erradicate OVERT WAR from our midst. Does Milosovich have a point in his condemnation of "victor's justice"? ABSOLUTELY! Should he have company, up there on that stand, as the countless individual non-combatants who had no choice to join a side and take up arms in a brutal battle of bestial savagery ALAS are offered some sense of HOPE in getting a voice to speak up AGAINST these mad-men who cast their personal demons and inadequacies like fire and molten lead upon an undeserving populace? DARN TOOTIN'! Will IT happen RIGHT, the first time out, in this v1.0 of decentralized and individualized personal soveriegnty for all? Unfortunately, NO; but for IT to happen, we'll ALL have to loosen our grip -- just a bit -- on jingoism, victor's justice, and all other skewed forms of "I'm RIGHT, and YOU'RE WRONG!" ...for THAT, is what leads us all into still more WARS, still more HELL,...and still less PEACE! STop being reactionary stooges, and we might actually get somewhere we haven't already been for the last 10K years. -Peace & Plenitude
  
  S. Erik Andrus
  California, USA

• Saturday February 16, 2002 at 1:55 am
  This is not an international tribunal. This is NATO tribunal. And this will be "victor's' justice", not a fair trial. Because if Miloshevich is not guilty, MATO will be guilty.
  
  Igor Petrov
  Russia

• Saturday February 16, 2002 at 3:22 am
  During the war in Croatia and Bosnia Milisevic was traveling to Moscow for orders and consultations. In his sick mind he implemented all means and used the willingness of Serbs to spread the Greater Serbia as farr as possible towards West. He was in Hague because he did not deliver to Srbs (and to Moscow) what he had promissed, Greater Serbia and Communism with a blessing of Russia.
  
  Vladimir
  California

• Saturday February 16, 2002 at 6:37 am
  Interesting discussions. Are prosecutors already from NATO countries? Shouldn't judges then be from non-NATO countries. Can the world not find eminent judges outside of NATO and USA who now dictate the world? What do you call people who dictate (through military and economic power)? The greatest democracies? Well, look at how the Supreme Court judges ruled in Florida. Surely there are civilised countries outside of NATO with eminent jugdes.
  
  Kee
  Korea

• Saturday February 16, 2002 at 10:32 pm
  USA should be put on trial for the bigest genocide on Hiroshima and Nagasaky, Rowanda, Sierraleon, Vietnam and so on.
  
  Beba
  UK

• Sunday February 17, 2002 at 12:15 am
  If there is no definite reaction to proofs of NATO war crimes that he delivered in court, if there is no definite and competent answer to questions of legality of court and habeas corpus, and if there is no explanation for prooved media fabrications of some massacres and concentration camps, if they refuse calling as witnesses western liders who are legaly most relevant witnesses, then what we are talking about? Where are law experts, where are intelectuals to answer serious questions? His trial is rare and unique opportunity to bring some democracy to people, and finally get a chance to ask some really good questions to hypocritical and criminal governments of most developed countries who are being able to escape responsibility, allthough their responsibility is far more great then of any leader of poor, underdeveloped country. In addition: We are so overwhelmed with media propaganda, so as to be blind to some obvious facts. I tell you one, which it seems NOBODY MENTIONS. Yugoslavia had a civil war, while American friend Sadam Husein INVADED NEIGHBORING COUNTRY, they also portraited him as worse than HItler, to mention just alledged use of chemical whepons on civilian population etc., AND ALL THIS HAPPENED BEFORE YUGOSLAVIAN CONFLICT. HOW COME THERE IS NO INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL FOR IRAQ. IT SHOWS UNEQUIVOCABLY THAT THIS IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT A TYPICAL POLITICAL TRIAL.
  
  Li Quanlin
  China

• Sunday February 17, 2002 at 6:33 am
  Can't wait to hear what will Clinton, Blair, Chirac and Kohl have to say.
  
  Frank Marino
  Philippines

• Sunday February 17, 2002 at 8:42 am
  Does Milo's alleged guilt justify apartheid and segregation in Kosovo? Does Milo's alleged guilt justify the depossession of the non-albanian minorities in Kosovo? Does Milo's alleged guilt justify the expulsion of the non-albanians from Kosovo? Does Milo's alleged guilt justify locking up those few who failed to flee in the tiny reservations? Does Milo's alleged guilt justify the reign of the notorious gangsters (Hacim Thaci & C°) in Kosovo? Does Milo's alleged guilt justify the fact that Kosovo represents a safe heaven for the arms, drugs and human traffickers? Does Milo's alleged guilt makes KLA unaccountable for the crimes it committed? This is a good question, as our old buddy Hamlet would have said... .... "The only thing worse than a Serb at war is a free Albanian," says Beke Abazi, 50, an Albanian magazine editor who is investigating the illegal seizure of property by organized gangs..."
  
  Ez Seltzer
  France

• Sunday February 17, 2002 at 12:04 pm
  In my opinion a tribunal established to judge crimes conducted in former Yugoslavia in 1993 doesn't have a legal base to do it. It wasn't created by all members of the UN. I support Mr Milosevic in his attacs on the legitymacy of international justice. If Americans want to judge him, why hasn't they ratified the treaty creating the International Criminal Court? They were just the same killing innocent people in Serbia in 1998. Today they want to punish terrorists from Al'quida in their own country. I think such villains should face justice in front the international court!
  
  Zibi
  Poland

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 1:00 am
  Did Milosevic mention Appendix B of the Rambouillet Treaty? This was the "military clause" we attached, demanding that NATO troops be allowed unconditional occupation of ALL Yugoslavia, including Serbia, not just Kosovo. This amounted to an unconditional surrender ultimatum even the many Serbs who hate(d) Milosevic could never accept (as Clinton/NATO well knew). And this is whyHenry Kissinger referred to Rambouillet as being an ultimatum, not a treaty, in his whistle-blowing 31May99 NEWSWEEK article which apparently panicked Clinton/NATO into rescinding Appendix B ... whereupon the Serbs immediately signed a peace treaty even though they had to give up ALL Kosovo ... and the war was over! (See also the postings on H-Diplo -- the discussion forum for diplomatic history researchers ... and former diplomats -- about App. B, starting 14May99.) If we put Milosevic on trial, Clinton, Albright, et al should be on trial right alongside him. Not doing so is exactly the kind of arrogance and hypocrisy which is enraging the rest of the world at us and heading us toward becoming an "alliance of one." Anyway, *did* he mention Appendix B? ... or the "military clause?" Although, I suppose if our mainstream news media concealed it during the war, they certainly aren't going to expose/ admit it now.
  
  Lou Coatney
  USA

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 3:50 am
  Its not fair, since there are no indications that Hashim Thacqi, Izetbegovic, Milo Djukanovic, Vojislav Seselj and others will be prosecuted. The reports from the tribunal are one sided and remind me of amateurs, that have powerfull friends. Then again Milosevic signed the documents for the UN, and since Yugoslavia is a UN member he can't complain about it. When can we see American Servicemen and presidents in a court like this?
  
  Scordisian
  Serbia Today
  The Netherlands

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 9:00 am
  Yes! And i think that he himself should tell everything to the public, including names of the people that helped him to be in power.
  
  Ramadan Berisha
  Kosovo

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 9:53 am
  In reaction to Mr Kee's posting: Of the three judges in the Milosevic case, just one is from a NATO country. To be precise: Presiding judge May is from the UK Judge Kwon is from Korea, Judge Robinson is from Jamaica Frank Tiggelaar Amsterdam
  
  Frank Tiggelaar
  Domovina Net
  The Netherlands

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 11:36 am
  FINALLY -- after graphic descriptions of the NATO bombings, how they endangered the pregnancies of 120,000 women, etc. -- he did refer to Appendix B, albeit not directly: ****** 14Feb02, p. 318: The targets were chosen several months before that, and in addition to that, the unacceptable text of an alleged agreement in Rambouillet was put forth, and that meant the occupation of the entire territory of Yugoslavia. And this allowed the anti-Serb and the anti-Yugoslav propaganda to work through the most influential media, through global networks to create a pretext for the aggression that was to follow. Today it is more than obvious that the real reason for the NATO aggression was the geostrategic spreading of NATO interests and its areas, -- Page 319 -- And also to create a precedent for using force in contravention of the UN Charter and without the approval of the UN Security Council. I assume that even in this room, nobody can help hearing this. -- and Judge May ended his statement for adjournment. The 15Feb02 statement text isn't up on the ICTY webpage yet. Odd.
  
  Lou Coatney
  http://LCoat.tripod.com/index.htm
  Illinois, USA

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 12:02 pm
  I most strongly agree with Beba from the UK!! How dare we present ourselves as judges after committing the world's most horrible atrocities at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This goes along the lines of an old saying, "people who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones". We are "throwing stones" when we need to be more circumspect about our own behavior and our own MOTIVES!!
  
  Barbara Welsh
  FL, USA

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 12:16 pm
  Hiroshima and Nagasaki were entirely different. They broke the Japanese' fanatical will to resist to the death -- they were the only factor specifically mentioned in the Emperor's surrender address -- and they saved millions of Japanese civilian and United Nations military deaths. By contrast, our/NATO's ethnic cleansing of 200,000 Serbs from Kosovo has created a Balkan Palestine which will explode again and again. Please stop diverting discussion from the Milosevic trial and our wrongful Kosovo bombing war with these unjustified unjust allusions to our war-ending atom bombings. There are other places to discuss Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
  
  Lou Coatney
  Illinois USA

• Monday February 18, 2002 at 7:00 pm
  This trial is another clear example of the intentions of the USA (using the NATO) for dominated the world, and is a signal of victory against the socialist countries of estern Europe.
  
  Juancho Polo Valencia
  Colombia

• Tuesday February 19, 2002 at 5:14 am
  Let us remind that the conflict on Balcans started with the illegal aknowledgement by western states of self proclaimed Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. Yugoslavia as a state, and Serbia as its part had to face that forced decision. Furthemore, NATO countries (Germany in particular) instigated the conflict by arms deliveries to Croatia. Why nobody mentions massive ethnic cleansings in Croatia when hundreds of thousands Serbs had to leave Croatia under armed supervision. What about former Yugoslavian Constitution which did not permit seccesion of its former parts? Who will account for NATO Military Instructors in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo? How could react France for similar actions in Corsica, UK in Northern Ireland, Spain in Bascs Provincies or US anywhere in its territory (Puerto Rico)?
  
  Igor
  Ukraine

• Tuesday February 19, 2002 at 6:48 am
  Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial? Let me answer you with a question: Is BBC objective?
  
  Miki
  Macedonia

• Tuesday February 19, 2002 at 9:58 am
  Most certainly not. He is being tried in a tribunal created by the victors, who as we all should know, are as culpable as he is of commiting crimes identical to those for which he stands accused.
  
  J. Gonzalez
  Mexico City. Mexico

• Tuesday February 19, 2002 at 10:32 am
  The Friday, 15Feb02 trial transcript still isn't up on the ICTY webpage. What's going on? Is it being "selectively cleansed" of (Milosevic's mention of) facts and policies exposing NATO's guilt for Kosovo??
  
  Lou Coatney
  Illinois, USA

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 1:28 am
  Absolutely! No doubt about that. Even in his own country he would not have been able to get such a comfortable suite in the prison and not talking about fair trial. Indeed he is too comfortable there. I think he is enjoying every bit of it. I wish he would have served his sentence in one of his own country prisons and trials.
  
  Engjell Pllana
  Michigan, USA

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 3:37 am
  I am womdering why the transcripts from feb 15 and on are not available. There are 1100 employees of this "Court"; is anybody geting fired for this obstruction. As for the fair trial of Mr Miloshevich: what are the lawyers and law practising professionals waiting for? If this one goes through, who will be the next "evil dictator" in the dock? When does our turn come? This has nothing to do with fairness, this is a political trial of the political leader whose former country used to be an obstacle for the US/WESTERN WORLD in it's military, political and, above all, economical expansion. This is not going to bring us any good, only missery and more wars. The time has come when you can see, cristal-clear, an unstopable decline of the western culture.
  
  ozzie wolf
  Canada

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 11:19 am
  The trial is 100% political, the prosecution openning statement was full of political statements. As we all know political trials are seldom fair. The western powers will not allow him to go free; they will make sure he is found guilty of something. This should be a rather easy task for the procesution, the list of charges is quite long and varied, so it should not be difficult to find him guilty in at least one of the minor charges. That is the best outcome the prosecution can hope for. The mayor charges of genocide, etc. are a pipe dream.
  
  Tony Aveledo
  Canada

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 2:33 pm
  I agree that the only way to make this trial fair is if every leader gets tried for similar actions as Milosevic. Unfortunately it looks like the more powerful will always rule the world, and fairness will always be whatever they consider it to be. Something I found pretty dissapointing is that in the US people rarely ask why is it that the rest of the World hate them so much and finnaly when Milosevic accused them openly in an International Tribunal the transcripts are "lost"???? Hopefully not. Please post them!
  
  Sandra
  Ecuador

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 2:39 pm
  Where are those transcripts!? Has there been an explanation? What is/has been the usual turnover for the past ones that have been posted? Day after? two days after? Thankyou to The Jurist for doing such an excellent job of gathering information on this most important event.
  
  Myrtle
  Canada

• Wednesday February 20, 2002 at 3:15 pm
  Milosevic can not receive a fair trial. American are so powerfull that no judge can resist to their pressure. Even Koffi ANAN, UN secretary was put into office by americans. Judge Richard May mis perhaps a good judge, but because he is paid by american ( via the UN ) he is not free. The hague tribunal is a victor's tribunal . The UN is just a cover. Ariel Sharon should have been prosecuted by carla Del Ponte. He is lucky to be protected by America. he will never appeared in an international court of justice Lezin, Cameroon
  
  lezin
  cameroon

• Thursday February 21, 2002 at 12:51 am
  Of course Mr Milosevic is not getting a fair trial. Simple as that. He was handed over to the Hague by the New Yugoslav Government unlawfully and for a large amount of Western money. NATO and the West didnt like him as he didnt play their tune. Milosevic is the most intelligent premier seen in Europe in the last decade, who has alot of pride,charisma,personality and a hero to all true Yugoslavs worldwide. He wouldnt have been able to hold power for 10 years if he was so corrupt and bad for his own people. It is great to see him make a mockery of such minute pawns in the courtroom as they simply have absolutely nothing against him.
  
  Besim
  New Zealand

• Thursday February 21, 2002 at 6:31 am
  What we can see can be hardly called a trial. The Court in Haag can be hardly called a court of law. I am not an expert, but I am certainly very familiar with situation in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia through past 15 years. I can assure you, such a heavy situation people of Yugoslavia have been experiencing has been caused by numerous sanctions and not by former gouverment missmanagement. Mr. Milosevic was certainly not a "top quality" leader, but at least he has been trying to protect citizens of Yugoslavia from terrorism. It is quite interesting that the worldwide media did an excellent job painting the paramilitar terroristic forces in colours of liberators and, only a few months after that they presented these same "liberators" as terrorists (at the time of their terroristic activities in FYR Macedonia). The world has been never given the right to hear the both sides. Those numerous microphone turn-offs we can see everyday is the very same method NATO has been using while destroying Yugoslav media centers and facilities, causing a huge number of civilian victims. Intersting fact that gentlemen in Haag never speak about civilian victims in Belgrade. Milosevic responsible for war in ex Yugoslav republics? Give me a brake! Since when a single person is sufficient for a 7 years long civil war? However, I do not believe new Yugoslav Gouverment have realy had a choice whether to hand him or not. We all know the scenario. Not a single citizen of Yugoslavia, regardless to nationality, is prepared to go through new NATO agression and, by what I saw, they have a huge reason to be terrified and to obbey unconditionally. The NATO interests have obviously been achieved - people are terrified as well as new gouverment, new base is in process of building and an innocent man is in front of a turned off microphone.
  
  Bojan
  Slovenia

• Thursday February 21, 2002 at 11:50 am
  Unless passages of Milosevic's statement were deleted in the transcription, he has missed his best case: the unjust/unacceptable unconditional occupation/surrender ultimatum of App. B of Rambouillet. Instead, he has understandably but myopically concentrated on the villainy/atrocities of the KLA and civilian victims of our NATO bombings.
  But the repercussions of this are far wider than just our ethnic cleansing of the Serbs from Kosovo. The unadmitted injustice of our Kosovo "War" and now Bush's (probably Enron-pressured) unilateral intent to attack Iraq (even without Sep. 11 justification) demonstrates to the East that they cannot trust America and the West with missile-defense-acquired strategic supremacy and cannot believe our assurances we won't use that for economic and criminal exploitation and political subjugation of them -- use it for evil. And this could critically tempt the East to use what it has while it still can.
  This trial mocks Lincoln's (and Reagan's) promise of "malice toward none and justice for all." And it may be looked back upon as the West's death knell ... if anyone survives to look back.
  And Putin says nothing!
  
  Lou Coatney
  Illinois, USA

• Thursday February 21, 2002 at 6:51 pm
  I agree with you Myrtle, and just repeat: Where are those transcripts!? Has there been an explanation? What is/has been the usual turnover for the past ones that have been posted? Day after? two days after? Thankyou to The Jurist for doing such an excellent job of gathering information on this most important event.
  
  Jugoslav
  Sweden

• Thursday February 21, 2002 at 7:47 pm
  I find all this trial like one big apsurd, same as our war. I think that only serbian people have right to prosecuted Milosevic because they vote for him and been damage by him more then any croatian or any kosovian. War in Kosovo was pure war over terorisam as all world fight at moment, just only serbs they are not aloud that. At last if is world ready to clean all rubish they should start from they own gardens. Americans talking all the time about human right in Kosovo but what about that poor Indians in reservat?The they have school's, Tv, universtat's,news papers as kosovian's had in Yugoslavia?And if I can remember Indians are host not gest as kosovians.Clinton have more blood on his hands but he was president of America and they can do anything what they want without been charge for they crime and all rest of the world is primitiv and uncivilizise.I'm sick of watching all crime what had been done in all around world under the logo of DEMOCRACY.. On the end I just want to say that I think nobody can't judge nobody if doesn't have clean hand (or if is even more guilty ), and this is not what I invent this is what Jesus said long time ago and what said in Bible in all court's around the world.
  
  Dan Vlachich
  none
  uk

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 12:21 am
  People shouldn't just base their judgements on the stories they hear. OF COURSE THIS IS NOT A FAIR TRIAL. And if we look at it that way, HOW IS IT ANY OF THE AMERICA's or NATO's business to decide if Kosovo will be Serbian or Albanian? It should have stayed between Mr. Milosevic and the other side included. We Americans should be ashamed of ourselves of butting our noses into business that shouldn't even concern us; thinking that nothing can get us, that we are untachable... well I hope people have learned their lesson by from the Sept. 11th attacks. But hopefully this trial will end by making a decision that everyone can benefit from even Mr. Milosevic who is actually the victim here.
  
  Mr. Haine
  United States

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 2:33 am
  USA is refusing to ratify the establishment of an International Criminal Court. It is logical from a strategic (power) perspective - such a court could jeopardize the ability of USA( or NATO) leaders to enforce it's world supremacy. A fair and just International Criminal Court would greatly increase the downside associated with warfare. The domiant leaders would run a personal risk of being imprisoned for command responsebility. In a "democracy", most leaders only go to war if the public agrees, and it is common knowledge that short ( or geo-dynamic) wars (with few casualties) causes the public to rally behind their leader - look at the enormous popularity of Pres. Bush after his declaration of war against terror. His actions are embraced by the UN Security Counsil prominent members - who themselves have a great interest in maintaining the geo-power status quo. USA has blood and dirt on it's hands ( nuking of Japan, napalm of Vietnam, cluster bombs and uranium enhanced ammo over fmr. Jugoslavia, etc ). The very nature of high tech bombing / missile attacks resulting in civilian casualtiues ( where the degree of precision can be determined in advance) undermines the Geneva convention and a code of chivalry in warfare (as terrorist does not have) - as long as USA/ NATO operates in such a way, they can not speak with moral authority against other regimes breaking fundamental human rights - they cooperate to maintain status quo (with the regimes of China, Saudi-Arabia, Israel, etc - who all almost daily break fundamental rights). As for the Milosevic case, it seems to me like he is to be measured up against a theoretical standard for war behaviour, while the rest operate based on a standards established through practise. War is hell, and the leaders who create war should all be put on trial. But to start with the weak - the one who NATO was against- it is not fair, it illustrates hipocracy, but hopefully it will result in a change of standards, and establishement of a universal criminal court. Milosevic is a convenient sacrifice for the public to maintain some belief in justice. Hopefully it will truely establish a system where knowone is above the law. ( Del Ponte used this regarding Milosevic..knowone above the law.. it would be a more correct statement if he was tried in a fair and just fmr. Jugoslavian court, and not in a court established by, or with ( silent) consent, of regimes that operates with double standards to international laws and people/nations who violate them). It is a political trial, but I hope the judges have enough integrity to transform it to a just and fair trial based on legal principles.
  
  Thomas
  Norway

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 5:43 am
  About the question , Is Milosevic having a fair trial , I want to ask , why the world is being so blind with open eyes ...?!!! How is possible a Criminel who took the lives of thousants and thousants people can have such a commodity in "jail" which to him this looks to be like a honeymoon and not jail ... I'm pretty sure that Albanians are not happy seeing him there ( cause he shouldn't exist now)but it the world's responsibility and time to face with a Criminel , so in the future to know the natyre of such a devols who call themselves vegetarians but eat human meat instead... People ask what would be his highest charge ...? His charge place must be one of HUNDRETS of massive graves projected by him ... but still we shouldn't agree because of the fact that there are so many new born babies he killed and he'll brake their sleep they couldn't enjoy in this life !!! No noo... Not for the reason because there are so many women having a babi shower for a dead child !!! No,because there are so many old people praying for their grandchildren if thereis any left ...! So dear friends , it is yours now to compare who is having what, FAIR , him or all these engels above ... I thank you in advance for your voice to be more louder for what we call justice and not to play games with childrens blood . Everything has a price , and it is yours (people who protect the devol)to think which must be the price of 13.000 ++ ALBANIANS KILLED,disappeared and prisioners held in jails of Serbia where the words "FAIR TRIAL " dosn't even exist in their dictionary . Eyes are to see ...!
  
  FBakolli
  Canada

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 11:20 am
  where is all thousends serbian people who's been killed and disapierd over the last 27 years of albenian terorisam in Kosovo? How many of you know really story of Kosovo?How many of you ever been in Kosovo?Acept 5min of what you see every night on news.I can tell you whatever you want to her in 5 min.Only Serbian and Albenian knows real true. So let's not talking about fairness.Because albenian can said everything what they want but we know what is the true.
  
  Dan Vlachich
  uk

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 4:53 pm
  It seems to me that he is guilty by definition. Just refer to Article 1 of the Tribunal Statute: Article 1 Competence of the International Tribunal The International Tribunal shall have the power to prosecute persons responsible for serious violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia since 1991 in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute. So if you are there - you are responsible. I don't even want to go into the rest of the legal and political abominations surrounding the Hague Tribunal.
  
  Ivan
  USA

• Friday February 22, 2002 at 4:54 pm
  It seems to me that he is guilty by definition. Just refer to Article 1 of the Tribunal Statute: Article 1 Competence of the International Tribunal The International Tribunal shall have the power to prosecute persons responsible for serious violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia since 1991 in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute. So if you are there - you are responsible. I don't even want to go into the rest of the legal and political abominations surrounding the Hague Tribunal.
  
  Ivan
  USA

• Saturday February 23, 2002 at 1:03 am
  I certainly agree with Dan from UK, the media has a great control over the balance Albanian individuals are now in position to cause a great influence over the situation, while the other side still has no power or support by the media worldwide. We have seen three very questionable witnesses so far, charging Yugoslav forces for all terrible events. A double or even triple political game is now on: if Albanian witnesses admit that NATO bombs has caused far more civilian casaulties than it has been originally released, they might (and would!) experience some serious political obstacles on their realization of their old idea of the independent republic. The other thing is whether an Albanian witness is in position to tell the whole truth, considering the situation in Kosovo region. Such witness would certainly experience revenge from well organized albanian paramilitar formations. On the other hand, why would an albanian witness miss the opportunity to make the "dictator" guilty in public? Besides, this is their only chance to charge someone for all horrible events and losses they have certainly suffered for every war is horrible for both sides and mostly for the civilians. For the question "why the world is so blind with the open eyes", I would like to answer that we do not really need open eyes until we get some balance of information and testifies, considering the world suffers a great lack of information form both sides - what is now primarily needed are open minds and clear judgement. The issue we have here is the fair or the unfair trial and we have seen three questionable witnesses and a terrible interference of the prosecution between the defendent and the second witness, taking the basic defendent's right to crossexamine the witness. Futhermore, judge May found this incident unimportant for further discussion and, by such decision, he certainly managed to make this process look like extremely unfair trial for Mr. Milosevic. Any other process on any other (real) court of law would fail by now and this fact makes the reputation of the Hague Tribunal even worse.
  
  Bojan
  Slovenia

• Saturday February 23, 2002 at 1:31 am
  What will be fascinating in this trial is whether the judges will apply the proper principles of law to the facts. There is immense international political pressure (not to mention the pressure from other dark forces) on these judges to convict Milosevic otherwise all the western media half truths over the last 10 years will be exposed as a CIA engineered hate and destroy campaign. This is the American way - first gild the lily (bring in the Hollywood script from CNN and the others media outlets) and then roll out the pre-orchestrated script for the actors (the newsreaders and the so called journalists) who read out and repeat the same pre-recorded drivel and misinformation that is just so necessary for American presidents to trot out if they are to justify military action to their people. And the world does nothing. The world has sat by and connived while the circus of Bin-Ladin-led revolutionaries/murderers/drug and war lords(who it is now well known was in Bosnia and Kosovo at America's instructions) have deceived the west for the last 10 years by proclaiming and complaining about being down trodden and oppressed. Their aim all along was to gain control of land which was always serbian land for over a throusand years and to also take over large chunks of land in Macedonia. All they had to do was to convince an Arkansa shyster lawyer who was President (who desperately needed to be reconciled with his wife after he had just faced the ignomy of his impeachment trial) and who needed to sanitise his reputation as a woman molester. The world knows this and should be ashamed of what it has done - it is prosecuting a man who is no worse than Clinton?Blair?Chirac and the others. As we have seen, these NATO politicians have used the Milosevic matter to deflect their own person corrupt problems (Blair with his determination to get a Nobel prize will stop at nothing, Chirac with his mayoral multimillion dollar funds scandals and which he, ironically, avoided being investigated). All of the rules of international law were flagrantly flouted and all of the basic tenets of the United Nations were treated with contempt. And the world does nothing. This trial will be seen as a joke -just like the US trial of Japanese general Yamashita has now been found to have a FRAUD (50 years after the event the US has been found to have deliberately with-held evidence of Yamashita's innocence because we now know General McArthur could not accept the defeats that he suffered against Yamashita) so it will be found that this trial is a FRAUD. And still, the world does nothing. It is regretful to say that the world has become no better than the 1930’s when Hitler did those terrible things. Yet with all our modern technology we have used and abused this technology to twist the knife and distort the truth and God forbid, question America? God bless America for she is strong and free - too bad about about anyone else! As a lawyer I am rather disgusted with the whole process - Americans should hand their heads in shame. Alexander (Australia)
  
  Alexander
  South Australia, Australia

• Saturday February 23, 2002 at 1:46 am
  The way I look at it is, the question shouldn't be "Is Milosevic getting a fair trial?", the question should be "Should Milosevic be tried at all?" He did what any leader would do for his country during a war. Izadbegovic and Tudjman were no different than him except for the part that he didnt play by the US rules, which is exacly what made him the target. And again Milosevic is being tried by the nation who has commited the true crimes he is being accused of, think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And I totally agree with Milosevic when he said that the court of law he is being tried in is realy not a court of law, it is a fake court made by those who need to be in a real court. Milosevic might not be able to win since the due to the fact that his opponent is US and NATO, but I am glad that he is a man of courage and that he is speaking the truth out loud. So with all that being said, think about my guestion. Should Milosevic be tried at all?
  
  Manchini
  North Carolina

• Saturday February 23, 2002 at 8:12 pm
  Please, let me know, where on the WEB can I find transcripts (also in serbian language) from Hague court. Thanks a lot! DJ
  
  dj
  
  slovenia

• Saturday February 23, 2002 at 9:15 pm
  Dear Slovenian friend, transcripts on serbian are on Milosevics Socialist party website: http://www.sps.org.yu, on english see Hag tribunals site: http://www.un.org/icty/, and than find transcripts, there you also have broadcasts, and on http://hague.bard.edu/ you have video archive of previous sessions.
  
  Antonije
  Yugoslavia

• Monday February 25, 2002 at 6:03 pm
  We are told that Slobodan Milosevic is a monster who spread racial hatred through the SFR Yugoslavia, that he is a fanatical Serb nationalist. That he wanted and agitated for the big Serbia. That he hated other nations and believed in the superiority of the Serb "race". That he is the inventor and main ideologist of the policy of ethnical cleansing. That he is a new Hitler, and it just goes on and on, each new day bringing wilder accusations then previous one. Stop and think a second for a change. Try to remember how many times, for how long in last +/- 10 years, in all these enormous propaganda campaigns which all of us witnessed, where no costs or energy was speared to find and use a slightest bit of anything what possibly could incriminate him - you actually saw him speaking? Did you ever saw and heard even 15 minute of any of his numerous speeches? Or read his texts or even short quotes? Isn't that strange? He was a public figure, all his speeches and articles were and are available. If he really preached what we are told he did, it will be broadcasted day and night, all over the globe, as a best evidence of his evilness. But it isn't. Why? What does it tell us? Think about it.
  
  Rade Plecas
  Amsterdam
  The Netherlands

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 5:41 am
  I have not noticed limits of posts described for this discussion, so I am asing the webmasters about the reason for deleting several posts from me, Mr. Radulovic from New York, Mr. Dan Vlachich from UK, Mr. Clinton from Canada etc. I have seen our posts released and now I can not see them anymore. Is there another location where our posts can be found? If not, I would like responsible person (editor) to explain what is the criteria on which such censorship is based. Thank you and best regards.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 6:00 am
  The Hague Tribunal is used to justify the Nato agression against Yugoslavia and to cover up Nato crimes and to demonise the Serbs in general and socialists in paricular in Serbia in order to justify the withholding of elections in Yugosalvia. It is a political show trial from start to finish. One writer stated that Milosevic is no doubt guilty of something. Why "no doubt". He is not guilty of anything. I met with the investigative judge and eputy minister of justice of Yugoslavia in Belgrade when he was arrested on domestic corruption charges. Thye told me that there was no evidence against him at all on those charges and the real reason he was arrested was on the orders of the US that he be detained so Del Ponte could get her corrupt hands on him. Tdeputy minister of justice of the DOS regime in Belgrade added that "although he is not guilty of anything those of us in the DOS would like to see all the socialists and communists hanged from lamposts." So much for democracy in Yugosalvia in the New World Order - the new world fascism. Readers must remember that the idea for the tribunal originated with the US Dept. of the Army and was always seen as another weapon of war, a propaganda tool used to justify war. it must also be remembered that that the media coverage is also a necessary part of that propaganda. Does CNN tell their viewers that its owner, Time-Warner, gives money to the tribunal to prosecute Milosevic? Of course not. This tribunal is not a step forward for international justice. It is a complete corruption of it. Christopher Black Barrister Chair, Legal Committee Int'l Committe for the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic Toronto, Canada (presently at the Rwanda tribunal Arusha, Tanzania, Del Ponte's othe little show trial.)
  
  Christopher Black
  Toronto
  Canada

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 6:11 am
  Hi! I've been thinking about your question and then I got mad:fair or less fair (that's law for you)Mr. Milosevic should stand trial and be convicted under all counts.No chance of an unfair trial - why? Because he is one of the guilty ones! Why? He willingly accepted to do the job! Why? He is a fascist!Oh, yes! Mr. Milosevic is not the only one of course but that's tough luck for him! The Croat is dead - can't do anything about it can he? No one knows wheather the Bosnian will reach The Hague - can't do anything about that either, can he? The USA.. the NATO.. and others? What about them. In the official name The Tribunal in The Hague stands "for Former Yugoslavia" not USA not Vietnam not NATO not "a discussion on moral vs politics". Let's not make a phylosophy out of pure facts.And the facts are: there was a country called Yugoslavia - communist or whatever it was a country with more than 22 mil people living in it. In 89 and 90 no one cried out to what are politics doing to that country;no one had the time - everyone was to busy trying to find the ones to carry out the job and they found them. Mr. Milosevic was one of them.He accepted to do the job and everything that happened after that moment on,became his responsibility. Mr. Milosevic is not tried for robbing a bank or running over a pedestrian!!!!
  
  Jadranka Ruzic
  croatia

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 9:59 am
  What fairness? The fact that Slobo is most probably guilty does not exonerate this cangaroo court whose sole purpose is to offer a semblance of "fairness". The "serbian translator" is a Croatian. All the cards are stacked (visibly) against Slobo. Why not hang him right away. The witnesses show nothing but "selective memory". Who's kidding who?
  
  ilija pavlovich
  wellington
  Florida

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 2:04 pm
  The trial is a joke. What trial? What a bunch of garbage!! six years ago he was a "prince of peace instrumental in the peace process" and now he is being tried for what he was praised for six years ago?? Oh and as far as kosovO is concerned look at it today. Look at how Albanians conduct themselves. Go ahead look at Kosovo without the serbian army and then tell me if they were needed there. The truth is out, we were lied to as a nation, NATO is running for cover, using what ever means it can to justify that blitzkrieg on a free country. It made me sick then and it does now. Bill Clinton was the sorriest excuse for a president this country has ever seen, he is without a doubt the real butcher of the balkans and his crimes were greater than anyone's. He (Clinton)sacrificed an entire country of people to save his own ass. The lies have been exposed. Only Clinton could have made milosevic a hero--job well done.
  
  Joel Bernier
  Michigan

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 6:08 pm
  That good question MR.Golob; where is our mail?Where is that DEMOCRACY OF FREE SPECH? I will love to know Mr/Editor where is that mail?Is there anything wrong with them?Or we have to say only what public should here? Many thanks!
  
  Dan Vlachi
  London
  uk

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 6:50 pm
  Milosevic should call into evidence the Tribunal's document explaining their reason for not even investigating NATO. One argument made is that the destruction of a bridge too narrow for a tank to pass across had sufficient military value to justify the deaths of 20 civilians. Surely, the military value of the area north of Mount Pastrik (Bela Crkva, Velika Krusa, Male Krusa)had at least ten times the military value of the bridge destroyed by NATO. Ridding this area of the KLA was vital in protecting forces trying to repel KLA invasions over Mount Pastrik and attempts by NATO to carry out B-52 strikes against exposed forces. 200 civilians were allegedly killed in the operations to secure this area, and this figures prominently in the indictment. I'm also sure it will be found that many of these 200 were KLA combat casualties and not civilians. The Tribunal's arguments in the document exhonerating NATO could be a very interesting weapon to use against the ICTY.
  
  R. B.
  Canada

• Tuesday February 26, 2002 at 7:31 pm
  Milosevic is handling himself honourably in such a perverse and cynical situation. We can no longer tolerate the double standards that accompany the "priveledged" states when it comes to serving "justice". The only way Milosevic will get a fair trial is when all the collaborators of the great geo-political power struggle are standing in the same dock defending crimes in THEIR names.
  
  Michael Kulas
  Canada

• Wednesday February 27, 2002 at 8:10 am
  Isn't it interesting that the ICTY have stopped posting transcripts on their website. In the UK the newspapers and TV have effectively pulled the plugs on this trial and stopped reporting it. Obviously it is already an embarrassment.
  
  Gerard Killoran
  London
  United Kingdom

• Wednesday February 27, 2002 at 10:44 am
  That is true even on Internet, Gerard. The Milosevic trial isn't in the first or second listings of news anymore.
  The precedent of the post-WWII war crimes trials in Europe and Japan was that a political or military commander was responsible for stopping atrocities by his troops. After the My Lai Massacre and other atrocities by troops of the West, that seems to have moderated to expecting a commander to do everything he reasonably can, to stop such atrocities. If the trial can show Milosevic did nothing to stop the atrocities or even succumbed to the temptation to use them to pressure the West into stopping the war, there might be justification for conviction.
  However, our forcing the war on the Serbs (with App. B -- see above) and then bombing them was an enragement which would not only have hurt M.'s ability to control his army but would have enraged him too. (We -- Clinton/NATO -- staked out the ALbanian Kosovo people like lambs, to bait the Serbian tigers ... and, in that, we succeeded.
  If M. is guilty of willfully/culpably losing control of his troops and police, he should be punished ... but our doing so will then make it MANDATORY -- morally, internationally -- that the West's leaders be tried for creating/forcing the tragedy in the first place.
  If Richard May has any adjudicatory -- or personal -- honor, he will either see M. convicted and sentenced if guilty and then publicly demand the West's leaders be tried as well, or he will declare the trial a travesty of justice and urge M. be freed if the West's leaders aren't to be tried ... regardless of what the Continental judges say or do.
  As for Milosevic, releasing him to whatever fate awaits him could prove to be punishment enough. There is infinitely more at stake here than justice to or for him.
  
  Lou Coatney
  Macomb
  Illinois

• Wednesday February 27, 2002 at 2:24 pm
  It looks like Milosovic is telling the truth about US involvement with and its support for the Moslem fundamentalists in Kosovo and other areas. NATO and US should go to court to respond.
  
  Nancy Sabet
  Boston
  USA

• Wednesday February 27, 2002 at 2:52 pm
  Whatever his responsibilities may be for the terrible events in the former Yugoslawic Republics and also in Kosovo, Milosevic certainly does not get a fair trial. Everybody can see the prosecution having available the most modern equipement, while Milosevic who is defending himself has even been denied for days a working telephone when he needed to collect crucial information for the cross-examinations. The friends of the courts also expressed today their great concerns about the fact that the trial chamber is denying Milosevic his right to prepare sufficiently for his defence. The rude and arrogant manner in which the presiding judge has treated Milosevic from the outset of the trial only reinforces the impression that at this court a fair trial does not take place. The behaviour of the prosecution is worse, at no point in the trial one gets the impression that this prosecution has any interest in finding out the truth which is its obligation. So far it has not presented impartial witnesses at all, close links to the KLA appear for the prosecution not to be any reason for concern. Its attempt to restrict Milosevic´s right to cross-examine the witnesses is completely consistent with the notion that these prosecutors are determined to get a conviction at any cost, even at the cost of a completely political show trial. political show trial.
  
  Guido Gebauer
  Germany

• Thursday February 28, 2002 at 12:10 am
  Some of respected participants in this group made the point of Milosevich not using enough The Ramboujet Agreement Appendix to expose the US/NATO political will to impose the war as the solution. As Mr. Coutney pointed: "If M. is guilty of willfully/culpably losing control of his troops and police, he should be punished ... but our doing so will then make it MANDATORY -- morally, internationally -- that the West's leaders be tried for creating/forcing the tragedy in the first place." All said is fine here, and obviously visible to anybody who had a chance to see a law book, let alone study one. The missfortune of Mr Miloshevic is that this ICTY thing (use the appropriate name of your choice here) has been denied the right to deal with the crime against the piece, the ultimate crime of all crimes, whose best and most successful players were and are those who are prosecuting and judging, bombing, spreading democracy, opening markets and societies. So, is it a missfortune for Mr Miloshevic, or ultimately, the one for all of us?
  
  Ozzie Wolf
  Canada

• Thursday February 28, 2002 at 5:29 am
  hey, I think Milosevic should be allowed to question and interrogate to his heart's content. otherwise we have a biased legal system... nothing new, of course, even for an American such as me. but if we deny a legal cross-questioning to Milsoevic, then we undermine and cynically subvert our whole moral authority. so, then, those Americans responsible for the Vietnam war are just as much war criminals as anyone from the wholee Yugoslav fiasco. I, an American, would gladly see Robeert McNamara and others trieed for war crimes.. but that wont happen because Americans are immune from War Crimes trials. go figure! love XXOO, chris edes from AMERICA
  
  Christopher Edes
  Rochester
  NY/USA

• Thursday February 28, 2002 at 9:53 am
  WE,the readers on this Email site are looking indepth and have a critical analyzing eye and mind on this most ridicule proceedings,we all know that this is not fair and let me not repeat why,Most unfortunatly,the media coverage is beating the drums of the accusation to the MASSES over and over again as so to give the perception that:something terrible happened in Yougoslavia and there is only one man who is responsible for it all...lets lock him up and the GOOD shall triumph over the BAD!!!Just like in the perfect hollywood movie!could the message be any easyer to swallow whithout any effort of reflection?unfortunately to most people the answer is yes!HOW CAN ANYONE JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE FOR BEHAVING IN THE VERY SAME WAY THEY DO! the answer is before you and ongoing...Lets spread the word and help some people be less manipulated,therefore less dum,therefore progress....
  
  vladimir stevanovic
  AIX-en-Provence
  France

• Thursday February 28, 2002 at 12:23 pm
  Today a witness with numerous links to KLA including its command structure claimed of having evidence of systematic killings of albanians by Serb politce and army forces. The same witness did not know anything about killings by the KLA. In fact he simply attributed killings of serbs as much as killings of albanians to the serb polics and army. I have no doubt that in any war and civil-war crimes are commited, usually from both sides. Just look at the so called US war against terror and the mistreatment of the prisoners in Guantanamo. The fact that Milosevic is singles out already undermines any claim of a fair trial. But even if this is not taken into account, how can the prosecution dare to present a witness with the closest personal links to the KLA, an organisation known for notorious drug & arms trading and the establishment of an ethnically pure Kosovo? guido@gfgebauer.de
  
  Guido Gebauer
  Germany