JURIST - Discussion Archive: Milosevic Trial

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Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic is on trial for war crimes in the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia at The Hague. This marks the first time a head of state has been personally prosecuted before an international criminal court.

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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discussion archive
Friday June 27, 2003 at 6:23 am
Aha, it was true then:
Sweden said Friday convicted war criminal and former Bosnian Serb President Biljana Plavsic had been transferred from The Hague to serve her prison term in a Swedish jail.

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Friday June 27, 2003 at 6:42 am
Thks
Andy
Gogol
Vera
for your focused reports on the MIlosevic Hearings. Heartening to see you are not getting sidetracked

AP V
NY
NY
Friday June 27, 2003 at 11:16 am
To all who are having a problen downloading this site. I have been having the same problem but think I have found a solution.
Each time the error message comes up, hit 'Back', then the link in your Favorites list. 3 times seems to be the charm. On the third try, each time it has been very slow loading but the entire forum has emerged each time. Hope it works for you.
Hoping not to get anyone upset, but I went back and read 2 pages of this forum because I thought I must have missed something.>
Despite the rhetoric to the contrary, Ramsey Clark is NOT off topic on this forum. The discussion on Clark was tied in to Milosvic and the 'Trial' by Jared Israel and Gil-White. After reading the last 2 pages, almost every poster complaining "Off Topic", did so as a result of the mention of Ramsey Clark??? Clark tied HIMSELF to Milosevic.>
Another thing about this problem that struck me was the fact that almost all of those complaining, have went off topic on various occasions, themselves. Even when they were not trashing other posters.>
When someone adds additional information to their post, (the first discussion on Israel was a part of the RC debate) and you comment on it, why would you then state, DISCUSSION CLOSED?>
If we are going to make Clark a taboo subject on this forum, how many others do we include? Tony Blair? George W? Soros? ???????
We each have our own opinions. It is kind of hard to believe that entire posts consisting of nothing but insults of other posters are considered ON topic, while Clark is a taboo subject?
We each have our own opinion. If you will go back and read the last two pages, you will find that Jared Israel, and Gil-White have responded to EACH exceptionally insulting post without the use of same. Just facts as they see them.
Just what is it about Clark that some of you feel is OFF topic? Personally, I find his 'spin' every bit as telling as that of the Media/Clinton/NATO during the bombing of Kosovo and Belgrade. In fact, far MORE damaging as far as Milosevic is concerned. Having Milosevic COMPARED to that 'eminent scholar', Sheik Abdel Rahman comes to mind.

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Friday June 27, 2003 at 11:32 am
There is a story on Yahoo today regarding the "Guardians" refusal to back down on their reports of the Iraqi WMD question. It is nice that the Guardian is finally seeing things as they are. Or am I mistaken in remembering that they were firmly 'behind' Blair, etal, during Kosovo?
Andy, I have read some of the stories on your site. (Started at the earliest date and working forward.) My son-in-law is Macedonian and I have forwarded him the articles I have read so far on that. He still has family there and has not heard from some of them for months at a time.
Thank you again for the link.

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Friday June 27, 2003 at 1:23 pm
The crucial conditions for Serbia-Montenegro becoming a member of NATO's Peace Partnership are cooperation with the Hague tribunal and withdrawal of charges against eight NATO states that took part in bombardment of Yugoslavia. Once these conditions have been fulfilled, we will welcome Serbia-Montenegro into the Peace Partnership, says Paul Jones , the US assistant State Secretary. During the debate on Kosovo in the Congress, Jones said that USA is of the opinion that "it was too early to begin talks on the final status" of the Province. "There are factions in Kosovo that want independence and there are those in Serbia who advocate separatism. We believe that either of these options would destabilize both Kosovo and the region as a whole," Jones said.
www.beograd.com

Dan B
Canada
Friday June 27, 2003 at 5:16 pm
A message from, Andy Wilcoxson.

He arrived today in Belgrade where he will be working with a group of young Serbian film people interviewing people and covering the struggles (strikes, petitioning and so on) going on there and preparing material for, we hope, a video! I talked to him a few hours ago. He said: "Give my regards to all! I am overwhelmed to be in this place I wrote about and studied so much and now I am *here*! The people are *wonderful*!"

If Andy transmits any pictures or text while he is in Serbia it will be posted at Emperor's Clothes

If you want to get a message to Andy, write me and I'll give it to him when I talk to him, which should be every day or two. He'll be gone until July 8th.

Jared Israel
USA
Friday June 27, 2003 at 5:18 pm
Sorry, my email didn't come through for some reason. If you want to get a message to Andy, you can write to me at emperors1000@aol.com

Jared Israel
USA
Friday June 27, 2003 at 7:35 pm
It pleases me to see the BBC in trouble with the British Government. It pleases me to see the British Government in trouble with BBC, in fact it pleases me that two accomplished liars are having a dog fight. Lies and liars.
Any BBC journalist here? Let me tell you what piece of work you're when it comes to propaganda, did Gobbles give you his legacy or was BBC already fully capable in propaganda when Gobbles was still on diapers?
So, today the BBC World Service remembered The Hague, you know that charming somewhat austere Dutch city and the international trial of former Yugoslav strongman Slobodan Milosevic taking place there, and the BBC told us lots of things we did not know about the trial as well as a few we already know, indeed very well: that the trial is long and complicated, we know, that is l boring I did not know, according to some journalist some are feeling like packing and going home from reporting at the trial, there is nothing to report "because all what the accused does is to deny anything ever happened" .
It is recent stuff, you hear gospodine Williams being addressed by Slobodan Milosovic telling him "so, you way of presenting things here is that there was only one side fighting a war, the Serbs and only Serbs" , and the familiar Judge May's voice breaking in: "you're wasting the court's time with your speeches!". Then the report says the victims are impatient by all this boring trial, they want justice not this endless parroting.
So BBC, you're not much better with Iraqis weapons of mass destruction and your government is up set the BBC does not like to be caught lying, no more than the British government, but I guess you can always blame it on that oxymoron of American intelligence, they are the ones no doubt mislead you willingly all BBC and government.
For any one who has like many of us here spent many hours of our time mostly at impossible hours of the night this BBC story is to put it mildly quite a piece of propaganda, deception, lying and one wonders what you BBC journalist do there besides bored collecting your money, is it so difficult to earn a living and tell the truth at the same time?

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Friday June 27, 2003 at 8:10 pm
Rebecka:
you are wrong on two points. In Krajina, 200,000 Serbs were not massacred. 280,000 Serbs were expelled, and several thousand (still unknown how many exactly) were killed, mostly elderly or sick people.
Second point, 2000 bodies were not found in Bosnia. Much more than that. There is no comparing Bosnia and Kosovo. Bosnia was far worse, lasted longer, and was more gruesome in the kinds of atrocities committed, by all three sides. Tens of thousands of Muslims, Serbs, and Croats died in that war, with the Muslim and Serb casualties proportional to the percentage population, while the Croat casualties at half the percentage.

P M
USA
Friday June 27, 2003 at 10:15 pm
P.M. So far I correct everyone and again, this time it's you where did you find the number 280,000 expelled from Krajina? The war lasted 5 years and the number that you said it's only applied to August of 1995.

Pero Peric
Canada
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 12:56 am
PM, Looks like we are both wrong.
http://www.mi.sanu.ac.yu/nato/mess60.htm
The crime committed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia assumed the largest proportions. 1,900,000 were exposed to terror. According to German sources, 700,000 Serbs were murdered in Croatia, 250,000 of them converted and more than 400,000 evicted to Serbia. WWII
In those wars the Serbs suffered greater losses than other peoples of Yugoslavia did. In 1990's, about 500,000 Serbs permanently left Croatia (emigrated or evicted). According to some sources, in 1991 723,665 Serbs lived in Croatia; today, there are 130,000 - 150,000 of them. Accordingly, the demographic loss is almost 600,000 Serbs. According to the estimates of analysts, the Serbian casualties in Croatia amount to 8,000 - 10,000. Out of total losses of life in Bosnia-Herzegovina (estimated at 80,000), more than 30,000 are Serbs. Balkan war
http://www.balkanpeace.org/monitor/mgen16.html
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/576/in111.htm
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/spin.htm
http://www.islam-online.net/english/News/2003-03/31/article14.shtml
Forensic experts say the bodies exhumed so far ***may*** account for more than 5,000 people.
HOW BIG WERE THOSE SACKS????
The count is complicated by the fact that many bodies were left incomplete, after being moved from one mass grave to another. ????
http://www.guardian.co.uk/serbia/article/0,2479,518695,00.html
Forensic scientists have recovered more than 100 sacks of human remains from mass graves in eastern Bosnia, an official from the Muslim Commission for Missing Persons said yesterday.
HOW BIG WERE THOSE SACKS????
The victims are *believed*??? to be Muslims from Srebrenica, the site of one of the most horrific atrocities of the war in Bosnia. Forensic experts said they would only be able to determine how many bodies were in the graves after DNA analyses had been completed.
http://www.transnational.org/features/kosovonumbers.html
http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/politics/media_watch/html/dorich.html
In the week before the Dayton Agreement negotiations began, Haris Silajdzic proved just how capable he was of pulling the wool over the eyes of the West! Silajdzic went before the CNN cameras to tell the world that his government had just discovered a mass grave containing the bodies of '520 Muslim victims.' I telephoned the international desk at CNN to inquire how it was possible to know the exact body count in a grave that had yet to be exhumed? In the subsequent telecast CNN revised the remark saying 'the mass grave is believed to contain 520 victims.' In the weeks that followed, NATO and ICRC excavated the site to discover that it contained only one body, the body that was shown in the mud during the CNN telecast of this so-called new event.
The above were gathered from a search of Google using the phrase Bosnia, body count from mass graves. If you have other sources with a higher body count, please share them.

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 1:04 am
Sorry, I put the question about the sacks in the wrong place, moved it, and forgot to delete the former. Alzheimers maybe?
BTW, I included the ones on Kosovo just in case I get called on that one. ;)

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 1:12 am
PM, One last thought.
>> In Krajina, 200,000 Serbs were not massacred. 280,000 Serbs were expelled, and several thousand (still unknown how many exactly) were killed, ***mostly elderly or sick people***.<<<
Someone on here mentioned a book. "The Vatican's Holocaust". (Sorry, I have forgotten who, but thank you. I guess. It is hard reading....) If you truly believe your remark above in *** ***, I suggest you read that book.
Warning, it is definately not for the squemish.

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 8:46 am

David
I was on a visit to the county of Norfolk during the past few days and thus have only recently read your question.
One wonders on what basis Williams performed his job if he was so unfamiliar with the UN military observers and their reports, including Michael Rose's. Yet he seemed to be quite familiar with journalists' reports which he felt were quite "objective"! He still works for Tony Blair, doesn't he? Can you help here Peter Taylor?

I hope my reply is not so late as to be irrelevant.
Michael Williams is not a household name in the UK except in the instance of the recently deceased excellent actor husband of Dame Judy Dench.
However I have googled up the following relevant information.
TonyТs Cronies
This publication was made about one year ago so the information may be outdated. In it Williams is listed as a Special Advisor to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office at least until one year ago. Now that Cook has been replaced by Straw and retired to the backbenches - where he possibly devotes more time to his former racing column as a tipster - under Straw the situation may have changed. However Williams certainly was until a year ago in the pay of Blair as one of his patronised Уmiddle classФ elite and may still be so.
Incidentally all this throws some light on BritainТs so called democracy and Michael Williams place in it along with the BBC and James Rubin. While our elected MPТs sit on their hands in the Commons for fear of losing their political patronage this bunch of unrepresentative Oxbridge graduate weirdoes, in the main, on sixty grand a year a (wo)man make the real decisions. They donТt come much weirder than the Head Honcho Alistair Campbell and former political editor of the Mirror who burst into ITV studios yesterday to launch an attack on the BBC. The class structure - in this different form - is still very much alive and kicking: Replacing in turn the Robber Barons and the Dark Satanic Mill Owners.
As Gogol has so rightly observed in 1999 over Kosovo the Government and BBC were united in a despicable mendacious attack on the Serbian people: The Blairs, Campbell, Cook, the BBC, the Guardian Е Now over Iraq they are at one anotherТs throats. Is it possible that they could be made to revisit their much worse crimes over Kosovo?
Some observations on an example of WilliamsТ work:
You have to download his Introductory Paper on СEnding AnarchyТ.
My first observation is that in spite of the articles title СEnding AnarchyТ after four years of such advice Kosovo is in a permanent state of anarchy.
A second observation is that he quotes James Rubin as the authoritative source for the background to the Kosovo crisis. A few weeks ago I listened to James Rubin, a guest of the BBC, still going on about MilosevicТs Genocide in Kosovo!
As to the basis of his work it appears that he employs a Bullshit Generator. This is a classical ploy of the academic seeking to befuddle bureaucrats based on the principle that СBullshit baffles brainsТ. Take for example this СpricelessТ piece of advice in the article above:
УTo avoid being undermined, the UN must deploy decisively and establish a centre of gravity around which local individuals and institutions can coalesce.Ф

Beware of the СBullfighterТ. This is what Blair pays г60,000 pa on average for part time work?
During my visit to Norfolk I was privileged to watch exhibitions by an artillery unit of the British Army and units of the RAF. A finer bunch of young men and women you could not wish to meet. Smart, fit, disciplined, competent and courageous. I am sure this applies to most European regular forces including those of the former Yugoslav regular army. It brought to mind a famous comment on our forces of the WW1 conflict: СLions led by donkeysТ.
On bogus pretexts Blair orders our forces into illegal wars. The false claim of Genocide in Kosovo and the Dodgy Dossiers on IraqТs weapons of mass destruction: at least one admitted by Campbell and the validity of the 45 minute warning still in dispute. Without UN backing Blair sanctioned the deployment of cluster bombs from a height of three miles over Serbian towns and cities. An order the Spanish air force to its credit refused to carry out.
The truth is important. Without truth there can be no Justice.

Peter Taylor
Herts/UK
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 2:05 pm
Pero:
That's what I meant. The number of Serbs native to Krajina that were expelled in 1995, was something like 170,000. The remainder, adding up to 280,000 were Serbs native to non-Krajina areas of Croatia, who then fled to Krajina earlier in the war, to escape Croat terror.
All in all, roughly 500,000 or more Serbs were expelled out of Croatia, and a similar number or slightly more out of the Muslim-Croat federation territories. Most Bosnian Serb refugees are in Republika Srpska, but some in Serbia. Most Croatian Serb refugees are in Serbia (particularly in Belgrade and Vojvodina), but some are in Republika Srpska, mostly in the Banja Luka and Posavina, areas that are historically and culturally more similar to Croatia than to eastern Bosnia.

P M
USA
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 2:08 pm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs99/990414-kosovo24.htm
INTRO: ISRAEL'S PARLIAMENT REVIEWED THE COUNTRY'S RESPONSE TO THE KOSOVO CRISIS WEDNESDAY -- A RESPONSE THAT OBSERVERS SAY CAN BEST BE DESCRIBED AS "AMBIVALENT." ISRAEL HAS SENT PLANELOADS OF HUMANITARIAN AID TO KOSOVAR REFUGEES. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT HAS BEEN RELUCTANT TO CONDEMN YUGOSLAV PRESIDENT SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC FOR ALLEGED ATROCITIES AGAINST THE ETHNIC ALBANIAN MINORITY IN KOSOVO. V-O-A CORRESPONDENT DEBORAH TATE REPORTS FROM JERUSALEM.
BUT APART FROM THE HUMANITARIAN EFFORTS AND EXPRESSIONS OF CONCERN FOR THE REFUGEES, THERE HAS BEEN A RELUCTANCE TO BACK NATO AIRSTRIKES AGAINST YUGOSLAVIA AND TO CONDEMN YUGOSLAV PRESIDENT SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC FOR ALLEGED ATROCITIES AGAINST ETHNIC ALBANIANS. :)

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 2:10 pm
Sorry about the caps. That was the way it copied.

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 3:05 pm
My best wishes to all Serbs in their National Day 28 June.
I wonder how the march in The Hague against the ITCY and in support of Slobodan Milosevic is enfolding.

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 3:08 pm
Well, somthing is going on:
Explosion Hits Shops, Injures 21 in the Hag

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 3:29 pm
There are no reports about the March in The Hague. I did a full search of all the newspapers,...etc. and there were no reports or pictures of the Hague march.

Dan B
Canadda
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 3:35 pm
A Day of Solidarity in New York City with the European demonstrations at The Hague

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 3:39 pm
My best wishes, also, to all Serbs on their National Day, 28 June & to the demonstrators in the Hague & in New York.
Perhaps there should be a symbol for truth like there is a symbol for peace, that could be carried by the demonstrators.

M Donne
Canada
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 4:36 pm
US Ambassador testifies at Tribunalt
Ambassador Peter Galbraith was the first American official to testify at the СtrialТ of Slobodan Milosevic. During the examination in chief, he stated that Milosevic had no interest in the welfare of the Serbs in Krajina. The ambassador also tried to explain that the expulsion of Krajina Serbs was not ethnic cleansing as the Croatian Army was not there to commit ethnic cleansing, since the Serbs had fled before they could be killed or cleansed. (nice logic) The operation knows as Oluja-Storm, ironically named after the Gulf War operation Dessert Storm, left 250,000 Serbs refugees. The ambassador blamed Milosevic the crisis and even suggested that Milosevic should and could have prevented the not-so-called ethnic cleansing by accepting Z-4.
Peter Galbraith went on to state that the Oluja operation was justified and that the United States had pressured Tudjman on numerous occasions not to attack. He added that the United States told Tudjman to protect civilians and their rights at all costs, but also acknowledging that they would turn a blind-eye to the arms smuggling of Iran-Bosnia-Croatia. Surprisingly, the Ambassador did acknowledge the existence of such deals, thus avoiding making a mockery of himself-for now.
Peter Galbraith claimed that Milosevic refused to see the American Ambassador and the Charge DТAffaire before the operation. Milosevic denied, stating that he had always accepted to see them. Milosevic stated a second time that he never refused to see any officials at that time.
УWhy donТt you say that you did not want to talk to me.Ф Asked Milosevic.
УWe desperately wanted to talk to you.Ф Responded the ambassador.
УMr. Babic testified here and he wanted to see me, he asked for my number and my number was always known and he got me on my phone and the only he said was that he accepted plan Z-4,and he testified that I said Уyes, yes, everything will be done peacefully.Ф Milosevic then lectured the Ambassador on this subject.
УNobody, not even Babic, not even Babic mentioned that a war-threat was looming againt the Serbs in Krajina against Croatia.Ф Reitareted Milosevic.
This was the point where Milosevic had had enough and decided to completely clarify the situation.
As it turns out so far, it can be said that the operation was like a Blitzoperation, with nobody in the Serbian leadership anticipating this horrible campaign of ethnic cleansing.
УIt seems that Babic was the only one who knew and nobody expected the Croatian government to order an attack on a UN protected area.Ф Babic did not inform Peter Galbraith that he had talked to Milosevic, was the conclusion of the cross-examination. Mr. Babic testified that he had been told that if he were not to accept Z-4 and that it would result in military aggression. So as it turns out, Milosevic was not informed by Babic on the Z-4 plan and the consequences, and Peter Galbraith was not informed by Babic as well, in regards to the phone conversation.
The UN expressed regret that the Croats will not "allow the peace process to take its course." The Security Council passed a resolution warning that "there can be no military solution."
УIt was not a secret what the Croatians would do.Ф Said Mr. Galbraith Milosevic responded: УBabic failed to share the secret with others.It seems that we, in Serbia, are responsible for not knowing that the Croatians would attack a UN protected area, Mr. Galbraith, it is not questionable if those were protected areas and you claim how we should have known/expected that they would attack even though talks had been scheduled in Geneva. Is that your assertion?Ф
Peter Galbraith was able to say that the Croatian army had already occupied a part of a UN protectorate; УI do not understand how you can say that it was not expected.Ф
ФThe aggression was condemned by the UN and it was said that this can not happen, yes or no, Mr. Galbraith?Ф asked the СAccusedТ.
ФIt is clear that the Croatian forces were allowed to attack with the active support of your instructors, your support, is that correct or not, Mr. Galbraith?Ф
The American ambassador then claimed that the government of the US helped in no way the Croatian Army. Milosevic then put to him the fact that Susak, CroatiaТs Minister of Defense at that time, was in Washington to sign an agreement with MPRI. The ambassador claimed again that this was a completely legal agreement and that if it had been illegal , they proceeded without the authorization of the United States and a thus must have violated the Arms Embargo. He again stated that MPRI provided help in terms of lectures and seminars.
Milosevic decided to go back to the issue of Z-4, asking the witness: Before we continue, since you said that you were not able to see me, nobody was able to see me, why, since did you not give this information to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, why did call me, why contact someone else? If you had wanted to contact someone, are you telling me that you could not hand something over to my cabinet and why could you not phone me?Ф
Milosevic then added and said: УIn Serbia we have a saying Mr. Galbraith, Сhe searches, but prays to God he does not find himТ.Ф That was a slap across GalbraithТs face. May had to intervene by stating that the topic had been exhausted.
Some had claimed that Galbraith had done a good job in testifying, but listening to his testimony, one can easily discover that it was a weak and pathetic performance of lies and more lies. Galbraith repeated that he does not have any information that MPRI violated any laws or politics of the United States.
УDo you remember that the Slobodna Dalmacija, a Croatian paper, published an article in 2001 about you participation in Operation Storm etc.Ф УNo, I do not.Ф
Then came the shocker of the document about Srebrenica. THE CONTENT of the document: A document, which was signed by Mr. Nice and given to Mr. Milosevic by the Registrar. The document was put to Mr. Galbraith. It stated that Alija Izetbegovic had ordered a meeting on the 23 April 1993, with 9 representatives of the area and the meeting took place in the Holiday Inn to which they were take by a UNPROFOR helicopter to Sarajevo. Izetbegovic told the delegation that he wanted to order the exchange of Srebrenica for Vogosce. Izetbegovic then made the comment that Clinton offered him the option of letting Cetniks enter Srebrenica, which would result in the murder of 5,000 Moslems. Finally, it would then lead to an international intervention. The 9-member delegation turned it down. The source believes that the proposal was made in 1993 but became reality in 1995.
ФGalbraith claimed in his BBC interview that it was not ethnic cleansing and Milosevic asked him about the grenades that were dropping. Do you remember that?Ф He said that people were running away from the army and that the grenades were dropping rather shortly and Milosevic then proceeded to ask him if ethnic cleansing is only when forces move in, УIs this the border you draw, dropping grenades is not ethnic cleansing?Ф
УI consider ethnic cleansing executions, beatings, rapes, burning of houses, torture, killings.Ф
УALL THAT HAPPENED MR. Galbraith. ALL THAT!Ф said Milosevic. Galbraith stuck by his point that the population had fled before the army moved in, but Milosevic then asked him УThose that stayed, Mr. Galbraith, were killed. Is that so?Ф
УYesФ, finally he answered, but saying those were isolated events. Mr. Galbraith could be a spokesman for the Croatian government.
УIn 28th of July 1995 (Glamoc-Grahovo), the Croatian Army after an agreement with Izetbegovic entered the area and are attended the meeting of that agreement in Split. Yes or no?Ф The witness agreed and then came another question:Ф Do you consider yourself guilty for those crimes committed against Serbs.Ф
УDo not answer that question.Ф instructed Mr. May
Peter Galbraith came as a confident witness and the Milosevic decimated him in the last 30 minutes of the cross-examination.
УDid Clinton know of the Iran smuggling operation and did Holbrooke know?Ф
УYES.Ф was the answer. Sadly Milosevic was not allowed to go on, but Tapuskovic was able to finish this witness for good. Through questions that were precise and factual Galbraith started to crumble even further. Tapuskovic proceeded to ask him questions about documents that Уhe knew or could have knownФ-some irony here! He presented a report from 1994, Rule 68, quoting a report that the US-strangely and Russia had stated that Serbs in Krajina need to have autonomy and that it must all be done peacefully, meaning no attacks by the Croatian forces. Almost all questions from Tapuskovic received a УyesФ. Most of TapuskovicТs questions focused on the autonomy and TudjmanТs idea of autonomy and how he never intended to give the Serbs autonomy, but used it just as a cover. Tapuskovic then asked the witness if he knew that negotiators in Geneva knew that Milosevic supported Z-4.
Galbraith appeared as a witness who was supposed to shift and place the blame on Milosevic for the Krajina events. At the beginning of the testimony he seemed to be very confident that he would succeed, but as the СtrialТ went on his answers became more and more insecure. One perfect example of his insecurity came at the end. Peter Galbraith continued to deny that Milosevic had endorsed the plan. The American official tried to deny and deny, but to little avail. He was dealt a final blow when Tapuskovic introduced a report by EU observers and negotiators who knew that Milosevic supported Z-4.
Peter Galbraith once again claimed that the СaccusedТ did not do enough to endorse it. In the end it was the EU officials vs. the ethnic cleansing denier. One can easily refute the Ambassadors comments on the ethnic cleansing section, as the he first general reports about the humanitarian aspects of the military-political action of the Croatian army and police, its content suggests that the "Storm" besides the liberation of the occupied Croatian territories had for a goal ethnic cleansing of Serbs from that area. The most convincing proof for this thesis comes from the UNCRO documents, actually that of its service for a humanitarian crisis. In the end, Mr. Galbraith made a mistake by acknowledging that Clinton and Holbrooke knew about the whole arms violations. It will ensure that Mr. May has little argument, if any, to reject the Defenses request to call both as witnesses.

Dan B
Canada
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 5:36 pm
Thank you Dan for the above. This type of day in court the BBC finfs boring and unworthy of been in a report!

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 5:46 pm
I met this morning with a free lance journalist who covered part of the war in Croatia and BiH. He said after a few of my comments:
"We journalist could not believe the claims the media was making about events on the ground, they had nothing to do with reality, they were in many cases just simply impossible. At the same time we could see with our own eyes how the chaos in Yugoslavia was perfectly controlled from the outside. How the various UNO deployments were a complete farce, how they contributed to the fire by fueling it. Yugoslavia was set to be destroyed from the outside, promises of a better life as independent states were swallowed and taken seriously. It failed, it will never work as you can see by yourself today."

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 6:12 pm
Moderator
I am receiving messages from participants having low speed internet connections saying they can't (again) down load the forum because the pages is too long,
remove the timer or trunkate the page more often

Thank you,

Gogol Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 7:49 pm

In her latest outburst of megaphone diplomacy Carla del Ponte, Chief Prosecutor at the ICTY, has this to say:
The time has come to summon the will and bring Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic to justice. It's what their victims, and the rest of the world, deserve.

This oft-repeated demand, this blind obsession reeks of prejudice. What of the three to four thousand murdered victims of the KLA not to mention the hundreds of thousands of displaced and dispossessed? Why does del Ponte never trumpet the cause to summon the will to bring KLA leaders to justice? IsnТt this also what their victims and the rest of the world deserve? There are no excuses, del Ponte knows the extent of their crimes and exactly where these butchers are - in the parliament about to usurp SerbiaТs province of Kosovo. All that is missing are the indictments and those are the sole responsibility of Carla del Ponte.
To update a previous comment: In its 2003 Conference Programme for 21st Century Trust lists Dr Michael C Williams as a Special advisor to the British Foreign Secretary and as a Director of a conference in April of this year. If it is still true that he is a Special Advisor to the Foreign Secretary, as it probably is, then he appeared before the Court as a paid employee of the Blair Government. Was this made clear during the hearing?
Impartiality: without it there can be no Justice.

Peter Taylor
Herts/UK
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 9:21 pm
Today on 28th June, the "Vidovdan" to Serbs, the Swedish daily "Aftonbladet" was featuring "Milosevics last battle" (1). As Staffan Heimerson's article, presented as a "Document", seem (in my opinion) rather characteristic for the superficial crab offered by media in Nordic countries too, I wish to convey a bit of it for comparison (in my translation):
[Quote from "Aftonbladet" starts here]
MILOSEVIC'S LAST BATTLE
He was despised and feared. He was seen as the mastermind and iron fist behind the ambitious (plans for a) "Greater Serbia", the etnic cleansings and the genocide on Muslims, Croats and Kosovo-Albanians during the collapse of Yugoslavia. Slobodan Milosevic, the Serb leader, a marxist and chauvinist nationalist, was eventually toppled by a popular uprising and subsequently send to the International Criminal Court in the Hague.
Staffan Heimerson of the "Aftonbladet" was on the spot when in the darkness of the night on 29 June 2001 at 1.20 hrs. Slobodan Milosevic was being tranferred by helicopter to a prison yard in Holland. Now two years later Heimerson is back to follow the trial...
Uninspired, rather reluctantly did I (Staffan Heimerson!) get seated in the ICTY courtroom...Sigh!...Would my hours spend in Trial Chamber 3 offer me even a single observation worth reporting, - just one remark worth noting?
I took a glance around...There was some 17 other people in the auditory, rather cool, showing no signs of suffering, apparently not relatives of victims of the ethnic cleansings and genocide of the Yugoslav wars.
The accused and the Judges, the Prosecutor and Amici were situated behind a bullet-proof pane. It felt like looking into an aquarium with big fish. Including the biggest fish of them all! To the left in the aquarium Slobodan - heavy and selfconfident.
From Swedish personnel at the Tribunal I had learned that..."one cannot be certain, that he (Milosevic!) will be alive still when the verdict is served..."
However on this day of June I saw Milosevic as more battlefit than resigned. Whispered one of the Balkan reporters: Milosevic believes that...it was all a conspiracy against our noble Serbia and (he maintains that): "I was only intending to save my country..."
Ha!...I started concentrating on what...was happening in the aquarium...(and)...the very first words awoke me: "We shall put out your eyes with rusty knifes!"
I was watching Milosevic...Our eyes met. I thought he was suggesting: "Very well, just you keep chatting! I will be showing you..."
[Quote from "Aftonbladet" ends here]
Well, - reading mr. Heimerson's crab while travelling by train from GЎteborg in Sweden to my native town of Copenhagen in neighbouring Denmark I took this opportunity to interviewing a few fellow travellers on the subject of this socalled "trial"; and found that none of them had much idea of what is going on in the Hague or even of the background for the "trial" (those who "read or heard nothing on Bosnia until shortly before NATO started bombing Kosovo" may rest assured: Many Europeans too understand less of all this than even an ordinary chap from Texas).
However the man seated next to me, with whom I had a nice and fruitful exchange of views anyway, ended asking: Well, if it were as you keep saying - then how about Milosevic's rhetorics?
Did he ever read Milosevic's speech at the Kosovo Polje? Of course not, - only very few people did that. So I was quoting for him two characteristic passages:
[Quotations from Milosevic speech starts]
(1)"...Serbia has never been inhabited only by Serbs. Today, even more than in the past, many people of other descent and nationality also live here. This is no disadvantage for Serbia, - in fact I am entirely convinced that it is to her advantage...I am convinced that awareness of harmony and unity will make it possible for Serbia not only to function as a state, but to do so very successfully..."
(2)...Six centuries after, today, we are once again engaged in battles, facing battles. These are not armed battles, although such cannot yet be excluded either..."
[Quotations from Milosevic speech ends]
My Swedish fellow traveller was accepting these quotations as indicative of the true nature of Milosevic's speech at the Kosovo Polje in 1989 (2).
Well, this is what I did today at "Vidovdan" - in honour of the courageous Serbs and indeed in honour of mr. Milosevic, who stood up for his country as its President, - and who is doing that even today.
(1) Staffan Heimerson: "Milosevics sista strid". Aftenbladet, pages 12-15. Saturday 28 June, 2003.
(2) Back home I wrote the note above, - and copied it to: staffan.heimerson@aftonbladet.se
Come to think of it I was also disclosing to my fellow traveller what I believe to be two potentially significant remarks by Presiding Judge May during Milosevic's cross-examination of Dr. Helena Ranta, the hapless Finnish "coordinator of disaster victim identification activities" including the Racak autopsies:
JUDGE MAY: But you're not suggesting that this witness (Helena Ranta!) was in any way involved in the NATO intervention, are you? (Trial transcripts, Page 17753, Lines 1-2), and: >P> JUDGE MAY: I have no doubt...it's not disputed that there were some KLA members killed (at Racak on 15 January 2003 (Trial transcripts, Page 17793, Lines 5-6).
Interesting, isn't it?

Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 9:26 pm
Well:
JUDGE MAY: But you're not suggesting that this witness (Helena Ranta!) was in any way involved in the NATO intervention, are you? (Trial transcripts, Page 17753, Lines 1-2), and:
JUDGE MAY: I have no doubt...it's not disputed that there were some KLA members killed (at Racak on 15 January 2003 (Trial transcripts, Page 17793, Lines 5-6).

Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K
Saturday June 28, 2003 at 11:00 pm
Rebecka.. it was more than 4 years after the battle of Medak Pocket (the largest battle fought by Canadian forces since Korea) that the government finally officially acknowledged the courage members of the Princess Patricia regiment showed in defending what was supposed to have been a cease fire line when attacked by Croat forces, wishing to overrun Serb villages.
I recommend all of Scott Taylor's books highly. In particular, Tested Mettle gives this incident some coverage.
The degree to which this incident was not reported testifies to the lengths Canadian leaders were willing to go to avoid saying anything bad about anyone but Serbs, at a time when the US was actively demonizing Serb forces.

Ian Davis
Wateroo
Ontario, Canada
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 5:26 am

СA Problem from HellТ by Samantha Power
The eventual intervention in Kosovo and the subsequent trial of Milosevic are the 'sole exceptions which prove the rule', and may yet come to be seen as 'high-water marks in genocide prevention and punishment'.
Otherwise, throughout the twentieth century as throughout history, genocide has all too often been seen by foreign powers as beyond their remit, an internal matter for the country concerned. Reports from the front, by survivors, refugees or courageous journalists and diplomats, have been ignored or discredited.

To misquote the reviewer Anthony Holden, Samantha Power appears to have two blind eyes to Genocide.
Does Samantha Power not know that Milosevic has not been indicted for Genocide in Kosovo or does she deliberately ignore the fact on the principle that Сnever let the facts get in the way of a good storyТ?
Does Samantha Power not know of the Genocide committed against the Serbs in WW2 or does she equally prefer to ignore the fact?
Has Samantha Power never heard of the KLA and its continuing reign of Islamic terror in Kosovo: The three to four thousand murdered victims and the hundreds of thousands of still displaced persons?
Not to mention the many provably false reports by journalists which now pass as historical fact: the claim is СWilliam Walker is a courageous diplomat whose reports have been ignored or discreditedТ? How easy it is to poison the minds of millions.
The poison continues to drip, drip, drip Е
Yet the reviewer Holden claims the book to be Уa superb piece of reporting which cumulatively grows into a major political work, part polemic, part moral philosophy.Ф
This is what passes as "moral philosophy" among the elite nowadays?

Peter Taylor
Herts/UK
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 12:39 pm
Ian, It is comforting to know that Canada didn't participate in that particular "US led bloodbath". I will read the book.
There is an article in the July issue of Reader's Digest titled "Crisis in Saudi Arabia" that all the Western World Leaders, and the people, should read, regarding what happens to the economy if/when the House of Saud falls. Looks like "when" is very likely to occur, very, very, shortly. Actually, it is surprising the Saudis have held on this long.
Hopefully, the ONE good thing to come out of Worldwide Financial ruin, (As the dollar goes, so goes all currencies) would be that there would be no more money for the Hague. Just kind of scary wondering what May and Company would do with the 'Prisoners' in that event.
To all those with slow computers, there is a way to speed them up. Start...Find...*.tmp... This will find temporary folders which are NOT included in the Cookies or Temporary Folders in Windows. After deleting them, there was a remarkable improvement in the speed of my computer in loading web sites. Spybot also has a Free download for finding all sorts of junk that slows down your computer.
There is also another requirement to the information above on accessing this site. All other Windows besides Jurist must be closed for the 3 times rule to work, and it has now worked for me maybe 15 to 20 times. The only time it failed was when I had my mailbox open and tried access Jurist. Good luck.
Maybe someone could tell Vera and some of the others? Just hoping to get more reading material......

Rebecka Justice
Portland
OR
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 12:48 pm
Godfred Louis-Jensen, Would you be able to translate any more passages from the article?
Merci

Dan B
Canada
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 2:32 pm
Dan B,
Sure, indeed I would be able to translate more passages from Staffan Heimerson's article in the Swedish "Aftonposten", - and I will "consider that in due course" (as Judge May would probably say).
However in my view "it is all the same". I wasn't quoting Heimerson for the particular value of his article on the trial at the Hague, but mainly in order to provide some insight in the current (regrettably low!) level of information (not to speak of "understanding") with the public in Sweden and Denmark.
I already had a kind reply from Staffan Heimerson, to whom I'd copied my "Trial Discussion" poster; and it may be fair to quote Heimarson, who willingly accepted the criticism implied (and expressed in my posting), for saying, that "I am but a reporter...however with a background from the Balkan wars during 1993-96 I believe I do have some knowledge of the issue".
Exactly! I've been talking to a lot of people (notably my own countrymen of course), who often respond with utter dissatisfaction to my prediction of mr. Milosevic's expected aquittal, suggesting that "he (Milosevic!) has committed a series of terrible (if vaguely defined) crimes anyway!"
Public opinion, or what we might refer to as "gadens parlament" is unfavorable to Milosevic, as "the man (or woman) in the street" is rarely inclined to think for himself, but tend to be more into "reading material" carelessly presented as "documentation" by the media. In fact even at "higher levels" people may tend to read "too much", and to contribute rather too little of their own thinking.
Thus may I conclude this answer to the kind request for "more passages" from Heimarsons article by asking, what it is exactly that Dan B would like to have?
gl-j
PS: In the meantime Peter Taylor has made that sage comment to Anthony Holden's review of Samantha Powers book on the American attitude to "genocide" (A problem from Hell). I entirely agree with his suspicion that Samantha Powers is unaware of the fact, that Milosevic has not been indicted for "genocide" in Kosovo - and that may be enough for me to decide, that I shall NOT be reading her book in spite of the recommendations of Holden to do just that.
I shall not even be (re)reading the review too carefully, but spend my (sparse) time on following up on much more narrowly focused arguments instead, such as this:
If Judge May resolves (as he did in fact on 12 March, 2003 during mr. Milosevic's cross-examination of Finnish forensic expert Dr. Helena Ranta), that "there were some KLA members killed" at Racak on 15 January, 1999 including also Hajrizi Bajrami who is not listed by name in the relevant Schedule A attached, but who (according to the Prosecutor, mr. Nice) "was killed...further down at site number 2" (2) it follows that evidently the incident at Racak did neither take place as described nor for the reasons given in the ICTY Indictment!
How about that, Dan B?
(1) Trial transcripts, Page 17793, Line 6
(2) Trial transcripts, Page 17786, Lines 16-17

Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 4:21 pm
Ms. Rebecka ReaderТs Digest is not a friend of truth or of justice. It is used to indoctrinate those who read at a grade eight level. Please donТt take this personally since I am writing about American public in general. I read it at times in the doctorТs office when there is nothing else to read. As to how prophetic they are on Saudi Arabia, I would say not very. I have not read the article you comment on, but it seems to me that it represents a form of indoctrination for the masses so that they will accept AmericaТs presence in the Middle East.
Mr. Louis-Jensen news is only news when those with interest want it to be news. When there is no specific interest the media plays up the base human instincts for voyeurism and misery of others in order to improve the ratings. When Milosevic was Уthe butcher of the BalkansФ his image was imprinted on our brains every minute of the day and the general public prided themselves as being experts on the Balkans. The media is silent. Out of sight out of mind and most people have forgotten him but they remember rape and genocide since these were headlines every day until the terms were burned into the collective conscious of the non thinking and non-questioning. In the true fashion of the press they never retract nor update anything so the lies remain the truth

Walter Trkla
Kamloops BC
Canada
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 8:11 pm
Godfred Louis-Jensen,
I was merely asking if you could provide translation for other passages. I hope you did not read to much into my request, but if you did, I will clarify.
In the last few months, there has been very little, if any coverage of the trial in the mainstream media, so to see a full page article so it the was a surprise for me. As a result of that, I was wondering what the journalist of that article wrote and thought of the trial. http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,324958,00.html
The reason why I asked for more passages was to see if there were any concessions that the journalist made or if it is a simple propaganda piece.
As for your question on the Racak massacre, I am well informed on that subject and see it not necessary to add to subject. In conclusion, thank you for your translation, and hopefully you did not misunderstand my request.

Dan B
Canada
Sunday June 29, 2003 at 8:25 pm
MODERATOR
By not shortening the length of this page you're making it impossible for many to participate in this forum. I beg you once again to shorten, to truncate this page, please.

G Charlemagne
Shangri-La
Monday June 30, 2003 at 12:24 am
A perennial correction is in order. It is not that Mr. Milosevic has not been indicted for Genocide in Kosovo. The facts are that a UN appointed high court in Pristina explicitly ruled that Serbs forces were not guilty of committing genocide in Kosovo.
It is one thing to say that Milosevic hasn't been accused of something, and quite a different to say that his forces were accused of something but that the court threw out the charge, ruling that the evidence simply didn't exist to support the claim.
See also the ruling from Greece's Council of State the country's highest administrative court.

Ian Davis
Waterloo
Ontario, Canada
Monday June 30, 2003 at 11:10 am
Thank you Gogol Charlemagne for trying to help us keep access to this forum. I am once again in the cybercafe since I have not been able to access the forum at home for the last few days. MODERATOR PLEASE WATCH THIS FORUM and keep it short. Thank you

Nikole J
Canada
Monday June 30, 2003 at 11:52 am
Ian,
you are (not) suggesting that the ruling of the UN-supervised Supreme Court in Pristina (that Serbian troops did not carry out genocide) implies (or even "rules") that Milosevic conducted a "campaign of aggression in Kosovo from 1998 to 1999"? Are you?
BBC's Paul Wood reported in September 2001 (months after the kidnapping of Milosevic and years after the issue of the "Kosovo" Indictment), that the court in Pristina had "ruled" there had indeed been (no genocide but) a "systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments". Crimes against humanity and war crimes did take place (in Kosovo), the court (ruling) said, and although these "exactions committed by Milosevic's regime" cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, their purpose was ostensibly "the forceful departure of the Albanian ethnic group from Kosovo".
Really? It sounds like a preview of the verdict: If this were so then mr. Milosevic (as president and Commander-in-Chief) would be found guilty of "deportation" and of "murder" as a "systematic" means of achieving this (as charged in the Indictment). Isn't it?
Do you know however the exact wording of this "ruling"? Do you know if those "deeply unhappy UN legal officials" who reportedly began "a campaign to have the ruling overturned" ever managed to do so?
I mean: What is the value of this crab from BBC? Is it not merely an example of how the press never retracts nor updates anything "so the lies remain the truth", as Walter Trkla says?
Dan B,
How on earth you could be "well informed on the Racak subject" - when most people (including the Trial Chamber in the Hague!) are not - that is beyond me? Tell me how come, please!
What is the authoritative source of truth about Racak which renders redundant any attempt to "add to that subject"?
I did not raise a question "on the Racak massacre" as such, but I do raise many questions basically on the way this crucial incident in Kosovo (which is the only charge prior to the NATO aggression!) is being (mis)handled at the "trial" against mr. Milosevic.
Suggesting that "there is not much more to discover" in the Milosvic case Staffan Heimerson concluded his article in the Swedish "Aftonposten" by citing the Serb(ian) former intelligence agent, Lazarevic, for saying (something like this*): Mr. Milosevic! You seem to always assume the unbelievable position, that the entire world is lying and you alone are telling the truth!
* I remember reading this in the transcripts (and cited elsewhere!) - but characteristically it's now submerged in an allready unmanageably vast pool of "information" (hence I did not find the original wording, but translated Lazarevic's remark from Heimerson's article).

Godfred Louis-Jensen
Copenhagen
D E N M A R K
Monday June 30, 2003 at 12:33 pm
How come? It's because I read all the material that is published on it. Being well informed does not mean that one has to have highly classified information, but rather be up to date on the events. As a regular reader of this forum, I would consider myself well informed on the truth about Racak. I would hope that you yourself would feel the same way afte much of the information has shown that it was not a massacre. I am also sure that you have read numerous posts on the Racak case on this forum, and after reading them would you say that you are better informed or less informed if you had read the mainstream media? As for myself, I know that I am better informed as a result of this forum.
Mr. Louis-Jensen, I think you read to much into my statements. I simply asked you for some further translation and you proceeded to question my motives.

Dan B
Canada
Monday June 30, 2003 at 2:25 pm
Can anyone translate or give us the main message of this article.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,325198,00.html

Dan B
Canada
Monday June 30, 2003 at 3:08 pm
Apologies to the rest of the forum but hopefully this message will be noticed (as well as removed)
SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE SHORTEN THIS FUCKING PAGE
Again sorry for the disturbance and bad language but whosever job it is to monitor is ovbiously one lazy arsehole.

A Concerned Reader
Planet Earth
Monday June 30, 2003 at 4:24 pm

(-: Surely you meant 'A Seriously Disturbed Reader'? :-)

Peter Taylor
Herts/UK
Monday June 30, 2003 at 4:27 pm

Last Piece in the Jigsaw Puzzle - almost
СFinance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he expects an oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel to be reopened in the near future after being closed when Israel became a state in 1948.Т Report by Reuters 20 June 2003.

Brilliant. Just as Anglo/US oil begins to run out, by invading Iraq, we have secured control of some 55% of the earthТs known oil reserves - in Iraq, Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia. The icing on the cake being the re-opening of this easily secured pipeline route which runs through our new colony Iraq and two pro-western states en route to the Mediteranean coast.
IraqТs imaginary WMDТs have yielded us control of an additional 55% of the earthТs oil reserves: IranТs nonexistant nuclear weapons may soon boost this yield to almost two thirds of the earthТs oil reserves together with a bonus of huge gas reserves. Are the threats now being visited on Iran also just another СcoincidenceТ?
Sadly all this makes the Blair/Clinton adventure in the southern Balkans, using Islamic terror to secure General JacksonТs energy Corridor Eight, largely redundant and the Anglo/US backed million dollar AMBO feasibility study a waste of money.
This may explain why Blair and his hired help del Ponte express no interest in the ethnically based murder practised by the KLA/KPC or the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of KosovoТs minority populations. Blair and del Ponte are walking away from the mess they have created.
All that remains to be done is for the ICTY to СconvictТ Milsosevic on NatoТs crimes in Serbia and its province of Kosovo then the whole matter can be put to bed nicely.
The rulers of the western world may then sleep peacefully in their beds floating upon a huge, newly and deviously acquired, sea of hydrocarbon energy secure in the knowledge that their political cronies and media hacks will maintain the lie as long as they fear losing patronage and along with it their otherwise unjustified salaries that enable them to Lord it over the rest of us.
Twas ever thus. But those who believe this view to be too cynical I ask to point to the mainstream media journalists who now recognise their errors over Kosovo. Especially those in the BBC. Where are the apologies, the corrections, the counterveiling programmes to counter the massive and massively dishonest propaganda campaign of four years ago and still continued sotto vocetoday? Witness the BBC providing a platform, during the recent attack on Iraq, for James Rubin to repeat his lies about MilosevicТs Genocide in Ksosovo.
There are of course independent and courageous journalists and MPТs who have tried to reveal the truth but not enough of them. To name but a few known to me: John Laughland, John Pilger, Robert Fisk, Justin Raimondo, Nebojsa Malic, Jared Israel and Fransisco Gil-White. And among British politicians: Alice Mahon, Peter Kilfoyle, Tam Dalyell, Jeremey Corbin, Alan Simpson, Diane Abbott, Alex Salmond and Lord Healy. For a more comprehensive list click here.
All that clamour in the western media four years ago over MilosevicТs alleged - but not factual - Genocide and relatively little since about the actual ethnic cleansing of KosovoТs minorities by the KLA/KPC. Almost nothing about the three to four thousand murders under the control of the KLA/KPC and certainly nothing done about the perpetrators. This is the real Genocide that Blair and his cronies created in Kosovo and now walk away from. By creating this illegal court, the ICTY, they intend to see that Milosevic - for opposing KosovoТs Islamic terrorist evil - carries the can for NatoТs crimes.
Mark my words: Anglo/US forces will relinquish control of Iraqi oil when the Weapons of Mass Destruction that threatened British military bases in Cyprus - with a 45 minute readiness according to the first of BlairТs two Dodgy Dossiers - are found. And when Tony and Cherie Blair are installed as the Sultan and Sultana of Baghdad.

Peter Taylor
Herts/UK
Monday June 30, 2003 at 8:46 pm
So Andy arrived in Belgrade on the 27th. Coincidentally I left there on the 28th after a visit of just over 2 weeks. Wish I'd known...
Yes, Andy, the people are wonderful, but they are also not what they used to be. I found their morale had dropped noticeably since I was there last in August of 2002.
Good luck with the filming. I'm all for filming in Serbia and Kosovo and getting the message out.

Anna P
California

Moderator

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