MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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• discussion archive

• Friday March 01, 2002 at 11:20 am
  Maybe Milosevic is guilty , but the Hague Court is not the right place to judge him.The court can`t be fair , because not every country ratified the establishment of an International Court.So many leaders of countries like the USA can`t be condemned. He should be condemned in Yuggoslavia for manipulating elections in Serbia and FR Yugoslavia.A request from me: please don`t write the short form Milo for Milosevic.Milo(Djukanovic) is a politician in YUGOSLAVIA.
  
  Petar P.
  Cologne
  Germany

• Friday March 01, 2002 at 12:30 pm
  WHERE ARE THE TRANSCRIPTS? Sorry for shouting, but this is important and they are too far behind. I smell rats with white-out working busily into the night. There has been some question as to Milosevic's phone line being tapped - OF COURSE it is, after all the people behind this 'trial' have no regard for justice and play the rules to only fit their needs - what's a bit of line tapping if it can save them some embarrassments.
  
  Myrtle J.
  Canada

• Friday March 01, 2002 at 12:44 pm
  Of course not! Not until Albright, Clinton, Blair Izetbegovic and the other Nato genocide leaders are in the same prision will there be justice for humanity. I hope and pray that Clinton and all of other appear at the Hauge. I would love to have a front row seat for that. (I guess just wishfull thinking)
  
  Veljko Ivanic
  Gospic
  Republic of Sprska Krajina

• Friday March 01, 2002 at 6:36 pm
  Shame on America and the Nato "democracies" for a most despicable display of hate and propaganda. Fair trial? You insult the world's intelligence by posing this question. President Bush should have put an end to Klinton's Kangaroo Kourt, like yesterday. People of the world, do not be fooled into believing that this is how the American legal system works. This trial is a farce!
  
  Roy Nichols
  USA

• Friday March 01, 2002 at 11:25 pm
  Fair trial? Give me a break.How would they otherwise justify committing serious international crimes themselves?How about violating Hague Convention,Geneva Convention,UN regulation,international terrorism,highjaking,assasination,aaiddind in drug traffiking and so forth.Milosevic is a scapegout to justify their crimes. And about the "witnesses".It is amasing.Nobody knows about any killings which are well documented by UN agences.It woud'nt surprise me if it was happening in America,where even if something happens in your naibourhood we ony see it on news.In European countries if you live in a village or a small town you know almost everybody and you hear all the news about any event miles around.And about changing storries now compared to what they said originally. Enough said.
  
  Czes Janowicz
  Canada

• Saturday March 02, 2002 at 4:34 pm
  Finally, the world is doing something!!! They have watched Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Sarajevo, being bombed and destroyed by SERBIAN FORCES. They have watched the slaughterings of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica, Brcko, etc. and in other cities that were committed by RADOVAN KARADZIC, RATKO MLADIC, and other SERBS who were the puppets of Milosevic's power. Then finally, after so many people have been killed in Bosnia and Croatia by SERBIAN forces and paramilitary forces the world woke up...!!! "The Butcher of the Balkans" (Slobodan Milosevic) started repeating his barbaric acts in Kosovo, killing innocent civilians, women, children, and old and sick people and again using cheap propaganda as a tool to portray KLA as terrosists but in reality those people just rose up against his tyranny. And it is absurd to claim that KLA would kill or slaugther their own people!!! So many people were killed and deported in Kosovo, and it is also so ridiculous to claim that NATO did that or that KLA would kill their own people!!! NATO COULDN'T RAPE, NATO COULDN'T SLAUGHTER because NATO performed AIR STRIKES. There are so many evidences of those massacres, and it is absurd to claim that NATO committed them through the air strikes!!! THE ONLY MISTAKE THAT NATO DID WAS THAT IT HASN'T REACTED EARLIER TO SUCH BARBARIC ACTS COMMITTED BY SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC AND THE SERBIAN FORCES DURING THE CROATIAN AND THE BOSNIAN WAR. All those who think that Milosevic is not getting a fair trial, either don't know anything about this conflict or they are buying his cheap and transparent propaganda that actually destroyed the former Yugoslavia. All those who think that Milosevic is innocent also automatically agree that Hitler and his followers were innocent too. The only difference between Hitler and Milosevic is that Milosevic has committed genocide on Bosnian Muslims, Croats, and Kosovo Albanians and Hitler committed them on Jews and Gypsies. All those who disagree with me should take a little bit deeper look at Srebrenica, Brcko, Sarajevo, Vukovar, Dubrovnik and other cities and then they will know what I am talking about!!! Milosevic is now trying to deceive the public using his famous strategy "Offense is the best Defense" but his cheap propaganda is at an intellectual level of a retarded 8-year old and all those who "buy" it are not really different from him or they are incredibly stupid!!! Anyways, I just hope that he will taste this feeling of pain, agony, and sufferings that he brought upon the others. There will be justice in any way, if not here then above!!!
  
  Zlatan Stulic
  USA

• Saturday March 02, 2002 at 10:48 pm
  There is no question about what side commited war crimes. Wars in Balkans are always faught with «medevial savagery», mostly because it's complicated bloody history. This was an etnic war... The side that had the most means, did the most crimes. But that has no repercutions on the issue of guilt. Now, I'm not a great fan of Milosevic, but the Hague could have done a better job, especially with these first witnesses, that seem... cofused. Is the court biased? I just think that most of the court's staff think more about their own welfare then they think about justice.
  
  v k
  yu

• Sunday March 03, 2002 at 11:13 am
  Why has the Hague tribunal not anymore provided transcriptions of the court sessions since Feburary, the 19th? With a staff of more than 1000 people, it appears incompehensible to me that the tribunal shoudl be unable to update these transcriptions. Or does the tribunal not want the public to be informed properly? It remains to be seen whether any transcriptions will be provided at all in the future. If not, this says a lot about the course of the proceedings.
  
  Guido Gebauer
  Germany

• Sunday March 03, 2002 at 11:57 am
  Milosevic is accused of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by NATO and their representative the Court in Hague. Yet the same people with their Leader USA are helping KLA-NLA-ONA-ANA to ethnically clean Western Macedonia from the Macedonians. The Macedonian Government is forced by the NATO reps to pass the amnesty law to set free all those terrorists and mugahadeens and other so called mercenaries who killed policeman, peasants, displaced the villagers, burned their homes. The same terrorists were doing the same terror in Kosovo and Kraina in the effort of getting rid of the Serbs and now Milosevic is in court for protecting his people and country. And all these for what. So that USA can have a colony in EUROPE for ever. If the Macedonians do not do as they are told they may find themselves in Hague too. For Macedonian the best solution would be to join the Yugoslavia and not be isolated little American colony like the Caribbean's. Now America wants the court in Hague to be closed once they finish with Milosevic in case some of the world countries have ideas to put some of the American's on trial. blagica
  
  blagica economi
  UK

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 4:43 am
  He is a hero and a fighter against the US terror in the world
  
  Vesna Drako
  Yugoslavia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 6:26 am
  It seems like we all (the world) miss the point of a military leader. Yes, if a president wears the national army commander title, he also faces responsibility for the acts such army commits on the field, but what happens when it comes to chaos such as occured in ex Yugoslavia ethnic wars? When I see some people considering Milosevic as a criminal, I suppose those people are wrong. When I see he is a hero, I suppose they are wrong as well. An army is ruled by an hierarchic structure and if only a single link fails, the whole chain of command fails. The hero would be the man, who does not send the soldiers by words "Go with God", but, instead of this, by "Come with me" or "Follow me". People from each ex Yu republic had such hero 60 years ago and he was the real internationally recognized hero, while some individuals trying to act heroic during the 90's should face the trial. In my opinion, ICTY is very awared of these facts, but also had to push the action to cover its own missmanagement and disability to take the real criminals to "justice", otherwise their institution would fail in front of the worlds public. I was living in Croatia on the beginning of the ethnic wars in early 90's and I have experienced the worst nationalism, agressive to its fulls, from both sides, but it would be wrong to judge the leaders for it. We all know that the biggest croatian extremists were removed by ex Croatian president Tudman and that the biggest Serbian extremists were removed by Milosevic as well. Not necessarily because the leaders couln't bare with their extremism, but because they couln't stand the possibility of blood thursty nation could call those extremists to lead them in the "holly war", full of appretites for revenge for tragedy of the WW2. By this principle Paraga was removed by Tudman in Croatia and, for instance, Paroski by the Milosevic in Serbia. To describe the whole situation to kind people with some sense worldwide: despite all my efforts, each time I have tried to talk with many people I know from Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia etc. they always blamed the other side. If they were only civilian victims, they would have blamed all or at least most of the sides engaged in the war, but no - even now, when it all should be left behind, people here fight the war showing this great shame to the whole world. Look at this forum, in a day or two it will become another field for ethnic war between the Croats, Serbs, Bosnians, Kosovo Albanians. Look how some individuals continue with provocations, showing towns and cities of one republic belonging to another, that does not even exist (Gospic and Vukovar are both in Coratia, not any "Krajina" or "Srpska Krajina" - I encourage people with sense to check a map of Croatia using their atlases or the maps provided on the net. The facts are the facts and the world and respected contributors, readers and editors of this forum should not be given the wrong information.) Exactly the same situation, but now the whole world can see the truth - a single individual, in most cases, no matter which colours he was wearing during the ethnic wars, is responsible for tragic events.
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 6:35 am
  (part two) Not to mention the our balkanic tradition to come to war with a knife or a stone, not wearing the uniform, only to kill our neighbour who has the better cow or more ship and chicken than we do (this is a caricature, but not far away from the tragic truth). I understand the tragedy many people have suffered and still suffer, but there is really noone to be blamed now. Or, at least, any blaming and bringing it all over again is pointless. I have suffered the war too and I know what I am talking about when I say "Leave behind in the name of piece!" bacause I know my potential appetites for revenge would certainly be part of the reason for another war my children would be suffering in. The world have finally the opportunity to see that an average resident from ex Yugoslavia simply does not need a leader to continue fighting with his very own brother, neighbour, friend. Therefore I consider very inappropriate to judge Milosevic or any other politician but soldiers and real military leaders, and if there should be a trial involving some famous faces in order ICTY does not fail for disability, there should rather be Karadic, Mladic (eastern side), Paraga and company (western side), Taqi and company (southern side) and others instead of Milosevic, such naive political creature who still believes in some chance about cleaning his name. In addition, his responsibility for flaming the nationalism should not be discussed, that makes no sense. The nationalists, as I have already described, simply do not need any encouragement, they can hardly wait for the next war to begin and they are able to explain each and every word for their own approval coming along with their natonalistic appetites. In addition to this, it is pathetic that some worlds leading forces pretend to be the peacemakers, while they take action with a single motive - to take advantage of such balkan primitivism we show every day for the last 15 years. The piece however, could be established, but this was not the point of any western mission, as we could and still can see, how the "liberation army" celebrate their western support by attacking innocent and piecefull neighbours in Macedonia. Interesting, this kind of terrorism does not come first, while Iraq has found himself in front of the next U.S. bombing raid for nothing. I encourage all kind and piecefull people with sense to discuss in piece, because the war is over when we say it is over and vice versa and I am asking the editors to do their best showing patience and tolerance for us who can not simply call a man or the whole nation guilty or not-guilty and feel the need to give the world the most realistic picture of this tragic part in history. Thank you.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 6:40 am
  All this show remaind me on Theatar Apsurd and on one of Samuel Beket drama.All this war's, court's,individuals resons,national pride,etc...this is all just one big show with very expesive ticket, to expensive... Very sad human drama.
  
  Dan Vlachihc
  London
  uk

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 6:48 am
  Dan, well said! When I visit London, we should go for a drink, although I am half Croat and half Slovene and you are the Serb. We should give the right example, don't you agree? Don't you ALL agree?!?
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 7:29 am
  I think there are two positions which are both equally wrong. The one position, in the western countries porposed by the majority, assumes Milosevic being one of the most terrible mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin and the trial completely fair & correct, the other position appears to regard Milosevic as on eof the greatest statesmen of all times, completely free of fault. In fact, I believe there is sufficient evidence that during the wars in the former yugoslavic republiques and also in the kosovo crimes against civilians have been commited by all sides. This includes serb polics, army and paramilitary forces, KLA fighters and NATO bombing that targeted a large number of purely civilian targets. I believe it would be appropriate in order to prevent such horrible events, when a neutral court would examine all these events and clarify responsibilities. UNforutantely the court in Den Hague does not qualify for such an undertaking since it is biased and one-sided, focusing almost exclusively on true or alleged crimes commited by serbian forces and ignoring completely the crimes commited by NATO and the KLA. It is a pity that this court is wasting the opportunity to contribute to true international justice & peace.
  
  Guido Gebauer
  Germany

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 8:04 am
  Dear Bojan Golob from Slovenia, I am from Serbian part of Yugoslavia, Belgrade. Your noble words are like a medicine, and make me very happy. You have made many correct points, among them is that we are putting this tragedy of ours in front of whole world to watch our pain and misfortune, misfortune in which they also participated with obviously bad result, and now they even judge us, they made a court only for us, while they continue to spend in day more then majority of people in poverished world in months, and prepare their next load of bombs for maybe Irak, and then more and more until they get everything. I hope you`ll meet with Dan for a drink, and hope you`ll accept me too. Let us change this disaster into developed country that world would envy, let us become champions of quantum physics. Antonije Yugoslavia
  
  antonije markovic
  Yugoslavia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 9:44 am
  Thank you so much people for all understanding and truth that you finally see ...We are so happy that we are not `killers and rapers` but a normal European nation in one ancient and beautifull country...Forget the wars, defend him... Love from Serbia
  
  Nena Josipovic
  Nis, Yugoslavia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 11:11 am
  So Milosevic started the whole mess in Kosovo with his speech in Gazemestan? So the prosecution claims! Read the speech and decide for yourself. $500 bucks says you wish you'd said anything half as good in your life! Then talk to me about fair trials. This isn't about Milosevic, this is a trial of the Western media and how it is used to promote democracy, in YU and in the West. If you have narco dollars you can buy yourself a swag of US and Western politicians... ever heard of lobby groups? Not to mention advertising space (or lack of it...where are the trial reports in the Western media? They don't exist because the trial is not going according to the script? If you have oil money, you can buy yourself a pipeline in Macedonia, Kosovo or Afghanistan, maybe even Georgia or the Caspian Basin countries. Milosevic can't win because the house of cards we know as democracy in the West could fall apart if the truth ever comes to light. Hell, what does it take to buy a few "new breed" Yu puppets to testify against Milosevic? ANSWER: A lot less than has been spent on 10 years of media campaigns, the cost of bombing YU (US$4 billion), hundreds of millions to set up the ICTY and zillions in lobby grop contributions from the KLA narco Mafia. Funny how the US governments seem to get involved where there are drugs or drug routes and oil at stake... try Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Central America, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Colombia, Kosovo, etc. Why I bet I could even buy myself a judge or three if necessary from a single shipment.
  
  David Dury
  Australia

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 3:01 pm
  Hello all, I've read this debate with great interest. Living Canada, I am far removed both geographically and emotionally from the former Yugoslavia. I have no first hand anecdotes of any atrocities by any side in this conflict nor do I have a political or racial stake in the debate. But I want to say this: It's about time that the world stood up and screamed that racial hatred will no longer be tolerated. Sorry Milos, you're the unlucky one who gets busted at this time. No amount of lies or crimes by one's opponent makes one's own lies suddenly true, nor one's own crimes suddenly just. We have a saying here "Two wrongs don't make a right". I have seen videotape of starving, emaciated bodies in Milos' camps with my own eyes. Regardless of the crimes of the other side, this is wrong. Those of you who argue that the Croats or the Albanians or the Americans are just as bad, should not excuse Milos' crimes, but rather demand the trials of the other parties based on their actions. ALL these crimes, by ALL sides, occur because the potential gain is greater than the potential risk. Let's put the risk back in crminal behaviour, and all work together to make it more risky to commit the crimes than the potential benefits so we can finally stop repeating these tragic, hate-inspired wars. I would be happy to hear from others who agree, and care enough to put aside partiality and support Love and peace for all. .James.
  
  James King
  Toronto
  Canada

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 4:25 pm
  Milosevic is receiving a fair trial. Much more than he gave to the ethnic Albanians that were illegality deported from their homes in Kosovo. Let us hope this man dies in prison
  
  John Austin
  Austin
  Texas

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 4:59 pm
  Hi James, certainly i agree with you that violations of human rights should be made risky in order to prevent them. however, i do not think that this is what is happening in Den Hague. i sure that human rights violations for example by the USA or its allies in cluding various disctatorships all over the world, are made riskier at all. they never will be tried by this or any other tribunal. if anything is made riskier, it is, i am afraid, to carry out a politics that is directed against the interest of the western dominating powers. as i said earlier in other contributions, i am sure human rights violations were commited by all sides. the crime of one side does not justify the other. but of course it remains still inacceptable if a presumely impartial body of law exclusively focuses on one side and completely ignores the crimes of the others. under such circumstances, i cannot regard such a tribunal as a progress towards peace and justice. a finaly question, are you really sure that these were milos camps you spoke about? with regard to bosnia & croatia the actually critical question is whether milosevic can be held legally responsible at all since he was president of serbia at these times and had no authority whatsoever over the other territories. before he became our enemy, numerous western politicians have argued that he was not responsible for the horrible event sin bosnia and croatia, but helped to broker peace.
  
  guido gebauer
  Germany

• Monday March 04, 2002 at 6:41 pm
  There cannot be "Love and peace for all," if there isn't fair and equal justice for all. However, only partial -- in the sense of incomplete or only for one side and against the other -- justice becomes injustice making Love and peace impossible. If we should convict and imprison Milosevic, we must do the same for the NATO leaders who caused the unnecessary Kosovo War (and all its grief and suffering) in the first place. If our injustice continues, our victims will have no recourse but war ... as the World Trade Center tragedy brought home to us.
  
  Lou Coatney
  Macomb
  Illinois

• Tuesday March 05, 2002 at 12:07 am
  James King - I defy you to find ONE word uttered by Milosevic which promoted hatred. You've never seen or heard anything or read anything he's ever said. All you have is all the media hype, none of which includes ANY evidence or quotes either in writing or on film of him promoting hatred. Quite the opposite! Just goes to show you how foolishly some people trust in the corporate media and their government. Learn a lesson from the Germans in WWII and ask a few questions about how Hitler managed to convince the Germans they were fighting the "savage Jewish monster" he created to justify spreading into Poland, Czechoslovakia and the rest of Europe. Demand some proof and evidence before you go around lynching anyone. "Fred on the ABC or on CNN told me so" is not good enough. I'm amazed how many people have already convicted Milosevic simply by listening to the infallible media and their own politicians who are notorious liars. Get your heads out of the sand folks or is the lynching and Ku Klux type legacy still too strong for some of you?
  
  David Dury
  Australia

• Tuesday March 05, 2002 at 10:03 am
  I, too, have been puzzled by the sudden lack of transcripts. I have found those in English to read smoothly...hence compliments to the translators but also to SM for well organized and presented arguments. The witnesses whom the Prosecution has brought forward thus far have often lacked in credibility. Halit Berani from Albania, was discredited 2 yars ago ago by none other than WSJ reporters Daniel Pearl (who was recently killed while on assignment in Pakistan) and Robert Block. Their Dec 31, 1999 article was titled "Despite tales, the war in Kosovo was savage, but wasn't genocide". Those interested in the facts behind the alleged Trepca mines and other such widely reported alleged "atrocities" should read this article to understand the fragile and often unsubstantiated basis of such "suppositions." Also, Srebrenica was not a "safe area". See the official UN report paragraph #475. Another puzzling aspect is the minimal coverage of the trial in US media. I found the UK coverage of the 1st 2 weeks extensive and, in spite of the usual well-known biases of specific papers rather more balanced. Is this trial and the accused going to prove a bit indigestable for the spinmeisters of the US Government, its media followers and NATO? Finally, stop repeating propaganda about destruction by bombing of Dubrovnik. It was the no-so-close commerical harbor of Gruz and the private yacht basin facility at the former Prince's Palace nearby which was the target. Damage to the old city, the "Pearl of the Adriatic", were minimal. What happened to all the money collected for repairing the roof tiles there?
  
  peter fredericks
  newark/delaware

• Tuesday March 05, 2002 at 5:23 pm
  Peter Fredericks - Good to see some people are awake Peter. Glimpses of truth are out there but unfortunately they're buried underneath mountains of lies and propaganda to suit various political agendas and associations. The lack of coverage of the trial is really disappointing as the trial provides a testing ground for the stories that have been spewed forth over the last 10 years. But then again maybe we're not really meant to be testing or questioning what we have been told by the media spinmeisters. LOL. It's going to be hard to kip the lid on the information but I'm sure they'll manage it somehow. Maybe they'll just ignore it and let the saturation propaganda over the last 10 years stay. The objectives having been achieved they now want the ICTY closed because it's too expensive. LOL So much for the human rights and justice argument which was supposed to be the raison d'etre for the ICTY.
  
  David Dury
  Australia

• Tuesday March 05, 2002 at 10:02 pm
  To the people of this board who think that Serbs are guilty for war over Kosovo, please go to the URL (this site) http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/issue_milosevic.htm and then go to URL: (Archived video) http://hague.bard.edu/video.html and watch testimony and cross examination of several witnesses. And you will see the truth. Then go to the URL: (Trial Transcripts) Additionally check the availability of the transcripts of the trial and you will see that they have stopped publishing them on the 19th of February 2002. If you start reading what is already there you will know the truth. Then ask you self why this is happening?
  
  Pera Bora
  Ottawa
  Canada

• Wednesday March 06, 2002 at 7:40 am
  Looking at the setup of the ICTY, and everthing from its Rules of Procedure to gathering evidence to conduct of the trial, is it possible to say that M is going to get a fair trial really? All seems to be skewed towards a pre-determined finale where M will get convicted at the end of the day. Thus, while not wishing to take sides on whether he commited the atrocities or not, I profer this question: Is the ICTY the proper trbunal to try him? Please remember it violated one of its rules by allowing the trial to proceed, because M was brought to the hague without the proper procedures being followed.
  
  Pete N
  Kenya

• Wednesday March 06, 2002 at 11:28 pm
  This trial is a joke. The guy have bunch of best western layers with enormous budget against him +”free” media. Judges are from NATO states, and his own country’s current government is unfriendly towards him. To fight all this he have no defence layer no budget not even a private phone. What would constitute unfair trial if this one is considered fair
  
  Darren Gencic
  Australia

• Thursday March 07, 2002 at 8:52 am
  Transcripts Since there are no new transcripts on Icty site I decided to call their press-office. What they said is, quote, "we are working as fast as we can, but there are a number of people that must see and approve them, therefore it will take about six weeks before they are put on the website" They didn't say who the "number of people" are. When i was young, before we had "democracy" there was censorship in this country. Newspapers couldn't publish anything that didn't go through the censors first. Some newspapers came out with blank spots where the censored text should be just to show they where censored. Seems to me that we have censorship again, in this brave new world that calls itself free. Fair trial?
  
  Miguel Marques
  Portugal

• Thursday March 07, 2002 at 10:31 am
  Censored transcripts as Miguel (thanks Miguel has found and then the following: In court, Milosevic complained again that the only telephone at his disposal was one in the prison corridor. But officials confirmed that Mr. Milosevic has access to a telephone at the courthouse and makes international calls during most breaks and after sessions. "He is using the court telephone very regularly," a tribunal spokesman said. "Of course, the calls are monitored." Evidence that is up to now 95% heresay. Prosecution is fishing. Fair trial give me a brake!!!
  
  Pera Bora
  Ottawa
  Canada

• Thursday March 07, 2002 at 12:42 pm
  NATO bombed Serbia into submission and then spent a few billion dollars to subisdize treason and now wants people to believe it will give Milosevic a fair trial. Even Kafka would have been unable to sell such absurdity. If the victors want to shoot him, or lock him up, that is within their power. But to convince a reasonable person that this is a fair trial is not within their power.
  
  Michael Remler
  Berkeley
  CA, USA

• Thursday March 07, 2002 at 2:12 pm
  For some background on the guy that was testifying today visit: http://www.albanian.com/kmdlnj/english/history.html
  
  Peter Veraveke
  Belgium

• Thursday March 07, 2002 at 9:33 pm
  People, dont waist your time going to the site mentioned above. Albanian propaganda. Remember that the KLA (albanians)were/are on the USA list of terrorist oganizations. So with Yugoslavia fighting them and Milosevic at the helm how as that differnt than Bush fighting the Talaban or Bin Laden? Milosevic was defending his own soil and is in jail, Bush overthrowing a goverment and its all part of defending the USA. When will the people of the world rise up to see the in justice in this world? USA is leading this injustice.
  
  Randolf Hess
  Dakar, Senegal

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 1:58 am
  Is there a way to organize a public protest of this trial. I wonder how many people from around the world (especially non-Serbs) would need to express their potest publicly before the media would report it as news. thank you.
  
  radu groza
  chicago
  il, US

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 2:24 am
  The fact that ICTY doesn't even posts later transcripts, and "free media" just tells us what we have to think without giving a chance to look at it ourselves shows how low "democracy" is falling. Almost entire gang of bought "free media" was quoting that Bachkali's (doon't if I spell his name right)"witness" report that Serb were shooting at civilians, but at cross-examination Milo was able to prove that KLA was present and was shoting too, so "massacre" becomes pitched battle, but "free" media decided to omit it as it is "unimportant" ... REALY??? And the lies go on. I think NY Times should put Lenins and Mao portarait as their corporate banner.
  
  Alex Veryright
  US

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 6:17 am
  Re: Radu Groza: There is a petition on Serbian Socialistic Party website, but this is a petition that supports Milosevic as well as the other "Serbian patriots" (?) I was not willing to go into that, because there was no definition of "Serbian patriots" provided and I was not willing to support Radovan Karadic, gen. Ratko Mladic etc., who are generally considered reponsible for crimes against humanity in Bosnia. The idea of organizing the peacefull public protests, especially on non-serbian initiative is great and such activity just might give some positive results in this situation. However, such activity would involve those who are not as straight to fight against this unfair trial, but would be willing to generalize other "patriots" as well and this would, on the other hand, make this particular situation even worse, giving the complete approval to the media to judge him as the same criminal as the other "patriots" were/are. I still believe the ICTY will ensure its own negative reputation by its own, full of mistakes activity and therefore our concern on that matter is completey unnecessary.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 10:00 am
  I hope that in the future ther be more reporters like the Canadian reporter Nancy Durham.How true some stories by "withnesses" are one must read the "facts" as stated by Rajmonda Rreci. This one nost an isolated case, I have obtained huge documentation, with photos and statements.I am sceptic about a trial that does not consider that the war was a civil war, a war against terrorists. In that war brutality occured in the process of fighting by all sides, yes NATO to commited crimes against civilians as well as the JA, KLA and all actors involved. Back to Rajmonda, title of article is: Conned in Kosovo: A CBC reporter's dilema. By Tom Regan - special to the Christian Science Monitor http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/09/13/p7s2.htm September monday 13, 1999 How come NATO did not bomb Turkey for destruction of 4,000 vilages, masive murders and non recognition of Kurds?? Fair, I think it is fair question, for nato and all its memeber states.
  
  Carla Berg
  Auatria

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 4:24 pm
  Fair trial? I guess, anybody who followed todays session will not be able to employ the term fair anymore. The court not only put strict restrictions on the time of Milosevic´s cross-examination, but also heavily restricted the right of the friends of the court to cross-examine the witness. Given that the prosecution got 1.5 hours more than the defence, it is obvious that fairness is not established. Apart from that, we again saw a witness with close KLA links, who knew everything on true or alleged crimes of serbian police and military forces, but nothing of any KLA activity. The gross inconsistencies in his statements also became apparent during cross-examination by the friend of the court. If the court would have allowed adequate examination of the witness, probably more inconsistencies would have appeared. I suppose, no court with principles, would give much on the testimony of such a witness. I am afraid, this court will handle this differently though.
  
  guido gebauer
  Germany

• Friday March 08, 2002 at 7:05 pm
  So has this now become a secret trial? This is embarrassing.
  
  Lou Coatney
  Macomb
  Illinois USA

• Saturday March 09, 2002 at 6:34 pm
  I think the proper question is: Would you like to be in Judge May's shoes if Milosevic is aquitted? Apart from actually having to fear for his life, his career would undoubtedly be finished. Not to mention that it would completely undermine NATO's assertion for attacking Yugoslavia in the first place. This is a trial in which Milosevic must be convicted. Too much is at stake here. Fair trial? I think that when the most avid supporter, and financier, of the ICTY is also the most avid opponent of the global permanent version of that court, really answers the question.
  
  J Olsson
  Melbourne, Australia

• Sunday March 10, 2002 at 4:12 am
  When the Soviet Union existed we at least knew who their propaganda was serving. In the west we have no idea who is behind the lies. As far as Milosevich is concerned the Western media has silenced him by not reporting from his trial. If they do report the articles are prefaced by a negative headline even when the article is positive. The media uses every propaganda trick that the Nazis would have been proud if they had used them. I don’t know what Milosevich’s complicity in the events in Yugoslavia was but one has to be an idiot to believe NATO. This organization and the nations that belong to it have broken every international treaty with Yugoslavia now they have placed the man who defended its political identity on trial. They are judge jury and the prosecution. This is frontier justice but then again Bush's justice is bringing them back dead or alive preferably dead. Unfortunately the United Nations has become hostage of NATO and Mr. Kofi Annan its Uncle Tom. So who do we turn to for justice? The people must demand better from the media and their governments. The issue here is bigger than Milosevic. We have lost in North America the free press that at one point in time was independent. We must demand its return.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops
  Canada (British Columbia)

• Sunday March 10, 2002 at 3:55 pm
  03/09/2002 16:38 GMT+2 -- Milosevic off the air No direct broadcast from The Hague on RTS Radio-television Serbia announces it will no longer broadcast the trial of former Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic from the Hague directly. The public will be informed on the course of the trial through its regular news shows. During the last month, Radio-television Serbia was the only station from Yugoslavia, which had to pay Eurovision taxes for this broadcast, RTS explains, adding that it had to pay 650 Swiss francs of direct expenses for every hour of this broadcast. This amount, according to RTS "exceeds the company's resources, as its budget is limited and exhausted by the previous management.
  
  Peter Veraveke
  Belgium

• Tuesday March 12, 2002 at 4:40 pm
  He is not guilty. This is a show trial plain and simple. How stupid do the Americans (who set thi court up)think the world is.
  
  Felipe Montareynos
  Santiago
  Chile

• Wednesday March 13, 2002 at 5:26 am
  Many justify the Milosevic trial on the grounds that never again will a leader guilty of war crimes enjoy sovereign immunity. But the problem with the Milosevic precedent stares one in the face - it is politically rather than judicially driven. How else is one to explain the tribunal’s clean bill of health for Croatia’s founding father President Franjo Tudjman. Tudjman was consistently Serbophobic and unrepentant about the wartime genocide of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia at the hands of the Nazi-puppet Croatian Ustasha regime. He presidentially oversaw the murderous expulsion in August 1995 of the Krajina Serbs from what were their ‘UN protected’ ancestral lands within internationally recognised Croatia. Worse still, the initial period of occupation by the American-trained Croatian military was marked by the well-documented random murders of several hundred elderly Krajina Serbs who had stayed behind as well as the wholesale destruction of abandoned dwellings. President Tudjman went on to gloat publicly over the departure of the Krajina Serbs and forbade their return. Tudjman also openly backed Bosnia’s Croats to the hilt in their war with Bosnia’s Muslims, which culminated in the horrific Croat siege of Muslim East Mostar. If ever there were open and shut cases with clear chains of command, these were it. Yet the tribunal never bothered to indict Tudjman. The fact that Tudjman received medical treatment at Washington’s prestigious Walter Reed Hospital in 1996 says it all. He conveniently died in late 1999.
  
  Yugo Kovach
  London
  UK

• Thursday March 14, 2002 at 7:04 pm
  Fair trial? I think nobody who is able to read and bothered to read on the matter can think it is fair. And again - if it is fair, why not publish the trial transcripts themselves :-) This things have happened already. Think about what is coming - we have no feedback, no free information in our countries any more. It is like driving full speed being blind.
  
  Alejandro Gonzalez
  Spain

• Thursday March 14, 2002 at 10:18 pm
  About the trial transcripts - does anyone here know if they are also being held back for the other trials in progress at the Hague, or is it just the Milosevic trial transcripts?
  
  myrtle j
  Canada

• Friday March 15, 2002 at 12:24 am
  The whole trial is insult to human intellegence. The latest high ranking British official as evidence presedented "evidence" of Tudjman and Milo carving Greater Serbia and Greater Croatia. The evidence hovewer comes with his conversation with Tudjman not Milo. SO TUDJMAN INDICTED HIMSELF, not Milo, and yet no Western Media questions then why Tudgman is not indicted but instead was beeing help by NATO? Trial is a ... joke
  
  Alex Veryright
  US

• Friday March 15, 2002 at 10:06 am
  Truth can not be buried for a long time....Anyone who has a sincere desire to find out WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in BALKANS, should read a book which is ONE OF MANY being published these days about twisting the truth in EX-Yugoslavia and involvement of West in creating wars that marked past decade. This book, as well as others that i will mention here, is written by an american (not "Serb propaganda") who has actually been to Yugoslavia, and has made his own researches. He is well famous political writer and lecturer. Book is called: "TO KILL A NATION- THE ATTACK ON YUGOSLAVIA", by MICHAEL PARENTI. For some of you who don't know who is Parenti, here is short biography. Michael Parenti received his Ph.D. in political science from Yale University in 1962. He has taught at a number of colleges and universities, in the United States and abroad. His writings have been translated into Portuguese, Japanese, Spanish, Chinese, Turkish, Polish, German, Bangladesh, and Dutch. Other books about what really went on in Yugoslavia are written (some edited) by Tariq Ali, Philip Hammond, Edward S. Herman....all of them( writers and editors) are DIFFERENT nationalities and even religions. But, they all expose the truth in Balkans and come to similar conclusion: Serbs are being demonized for various reasons, and Milosevic is no genocidical maniac (like HITLER) or mad nationalist....Sad thing about WESTERN values and democracy is that only books remain free of "government censorship", while TV, Radio and newspapers are SO FAR AWAY FROM BEING FREE AND INDEPENDENT. Other books : " DEGRADED CAPABILITY - MEDIA AND THE KOSOVO CRISIS"- edited by Hammond and Herman; "MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE? NATO'S BALKAN CRUSADE"- edited by Tariq Ali; and a book which will help you understand USA and West : "HIDDEN AGENDAS"- by John
  
  Jean Andre Velay
  United Kingdom

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 1:44 am
  The trial is a mascarade and every decent person on this Earth knows it. It might be the time for a decent opozition to this penible show. Wake up people.
  
  Jeff Giurgiev
  Toronto
  Canada

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 5:07 am
  Milosevic was guilty for Bosnia, Croatia but not alone. Along whit Izetbegovic, Tudman and the rest of the gang. Now his alone on trial. Fair??? I think not. In Kosovo he was defending his own country. Albanian there was terorist. When the people is gona understend that???
  
  Les Brown
  Canada

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 8:18 am
  Paddy Ashdown says it's not what NATO did, it's something Mr Milosevic did. Mr Milosevic says it's not what he did, it's something the KLA did. The KLA says it's not what they did, it's something the Serbs did. The reason Mr Milosevic is on trial is because Paddy Ashdown and others told him he would end up in The Hague and that's where he is. After all, Mr Milosevic is the one who is on trial, so it's all about what he did.
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 10:52 am
  The evidence of Lord Ashdown, frequently referred to in the media as "Paddy Pantsdown" (How wicked is the media, "The Butcher of Belgrade": innocent until proved guilty?), deserves scrutiny as to motive and content. Ashdown a minor British politician has just been appointed by Nato the 'Emperor' of Bosnia a post he has ernestly sought. Was his testimony the price? His testimony that the British have not used tanks or artillery or made indiscriminate attacks upon terrorist groups is not true. Leave aside Bloody Sunday and go back to Croke Park where an armoured vehicle was driven into a football stadium and fired into the crowd. Or go to the Dublin Post Office where artillery was used. Being Irish born he has no excuse for this misleading of the court. More recently the RAF dropped cluster bombs from three miles high onto civilan areas in Serbia hitting schools and hospitals. Flying bombs (WTC?) were directed at public buildings in Belgrade including a TV station and the Chinese Embassy. Thousands of innocent Serb women and children were killed or injured by these atrocious war crimes. What had the Serbs done to Nato to deserve these indiscriminate attacks? The KLA a militant Islamic terrorist outfit supported by Nato (acknowledged by Ashdown) and including Mujaheden were murdering hundreds of Serbs in Kosovo. The mutilation of victims was horrific and designed to be provocative as it still is in Macedonia. When Serb forces attacked the KLA they hid amongst the Kosovo Albanians and those who objected were murdered by the KLA. Ashdown's reports of horrors are one-sided. Three thousand Kosovo Serbs have been murdered or abducted during Nato's war and occupation and 200 thousand have been ethnically cleansed. Is this illegal court designed to provide a smokescreen for New Labour's war crimes. Blair seized the Leadership of the Nato alliance when Clinton was incapaciated (he had an accident with a cigar?). Was this to please his large Islamic constituency? If so it has all gone badly wrong. Cook's Ethical Foreign policy badly needs a smokescreen and Lord Robertson an excuse for his crimes against humanity. The ethnic cleansing of Kosovo Serbs from there centuries old homeland and the Genocide of the remaing Kosovo Serbs. Milosevic is a scapegoat: this is a classic case of blame the victim. Peter Taylor UK PS Where is the evidence for the 11,000 murdered Kosovo Albanians the court keeps refering to? UN examiners after an extensive search have found only 2000 bodies. Many of these are Serbs and many Kosovo Albanians murdered by the KLA.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 12:56 pm
  "Mr. Ashdown, should someone that has committed a War Crime or violeted the international law be held accountable for their actions?" Prosecution, "We dispute the validity of the FBI Report Mr. Milosevic is quoting from." (See FBI Website it is publicly posted) Karadic eluded arrest. There was no will on NATO's side to arrest him for 7 years. I guess it is the only person the prosecution believes can incriminate him. Oh, besides if they are having such difficulty conjuring reliable witnesses about Kosovo (which by the way should have been easier to convict Milos on) what can they really show for about Bosnia or Croatia. If Milos survives the Kosovo trial portion (if that is) he should not have a hard time defending himself aginst other charges. 1995 Dayton in Ohio, 1999 found guilty of war crimes? Odd? The prosecution should be happy that he has only a pay phone, a Laptop (no Internet), and his real lawyers from Belgrade are denied to come to consult. Set him free to defend himsef properly. Or did they enter a guily plea in the begining? Kris
  
  Kristian Gemisic
  USA

• Saturday March 16, 2002 at 8:28 pm
  Peter Taylor from the UK has it right. Cheers Mate.
  
  Hugh Roddy
  Papeete
  Tahiti

• Sunday March 17, 2002 at 7:29 am
  It should not be too difficult to get Milosevic convicted. All that is required is that he knew of the atrocities and did nothing to stop them or to punish the perpetrators. First, it is unclear what the word "know" means in this trial: the prosecutors don't get as much as a tick on their fingers for using witnesses whose strength is in their number and certainly not in their quality. Second, punishing the perpetrators was up to the independent courts in Yugoslavia. It is understandable that ICTY may consider any court illegal which doesn't do as it's told. One of the ICTY truisms must be that Milosevic ran the state the way the Western states now run the ICTY. As for stopping the atrocities, that was what the Serb forces were doing. The KLA consisted mostly of ethnic Albanians who were - surprise surprise - Yugoslavs. The Serb forces not only had the right but the duty to stop them, by the ICTY's own admission. Furthermore, as Professor D'Amato has pointed out, ethnic cleansing is not an international crime: the winners of WW II gave their blessing to the large-scale ethnic expulsions after the war. However, the operative word here is the "winners". International law does leave some latitude for the winners. Even if ICTY is all about the winner's justice, it was far from clear who the winner was, until Milosevic was brought to The Hague. It is not about who did what but who gets caught. After somebody is "brought to justice", his opponent can already declare himself a winner and evoke a self-declared amnesty. Finally, as for the numerical evidence concerning the massacres, NATO claimed the Serbs killed as many as 100 000 ethnic Albanians. What they have found thus far is about 3% of that number. So, no matter what kind of hightech you use, the massacres that can be attributed to any special group should be about 1% of the original number.
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Sunday March 17, 2002 at 1:56 pm
  ON SHOW TRIALS: deja vu: part 1 of 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ADOLF HITLER: NAZI LEADER ------------------------------ Outspoken supreme 'moral' leader of NAZI AGGRESSION. Popular with his people, once established in power took little real interest in domestic affairs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- CZECHOSLOVAKIA - CAMPAIGN 1938 onwards:- Czechs blocked the Nazi goal to control Eastern Europe so the Nazis backed an SFC TERROR CAMPAIGN in the Sudetenland. When the Czechs quelled the violence with force JOSEPH GOEBBELS orchestrated a propaganda campaign of fabricated "Czech terror and oppression" of the Sudetenland Germans. Czech president EDVARD BENES was reviled as a WARMONGER and abandonned by the British under Nazi pressure. Threatened with attack including the bombing of Prague if he did not capitulate to Nazi occupation, Benes caved in and was forced to resign. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------THE SUDETENLAND WAS ANNEXED, SLOVAKIA DETATCHED AND A COMPLIANT GOVERNMENT INSTALLED IN PRAGUE. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The SUDETENLAND was then ETHNICALLY CLEANSED of its non-German population mainly Czechs. Thousands of Czechs were murdered during the Nazi occupation. NAZI SHOW TRIALS were set up not for war crimes which are many and well documented but for those who resisted. Because he did not resist Benes was spared. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ON SHOW TRIALS: deja vu: part 2 of 2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------TONY BLAIR: A NATO LEADER -------------------------- Outspoken supreme 'moral' leader of NATO AGGRESSION. Popular with his people, once established in power took little real interest in domestic affairs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YUGOSLAVIA - CAMPAIGN 1998 onwards:- Serbs blocked the Nato goal to control The Balkans so Nato backed a KLA TERROR CAMPAIGN in Kosovo. When the Serbs quelled the violence with force JAMIE SHEA orchestrated a propaganda campaign of fabricated "Serb terror and oppression" of the Kosovo Albanians. Did Blair's chief spin doctor, Alistair Campbell visit SHAPE in order to boost Shea's propaganda? Where did the reports of factory death camps, of rape camps, of 100,000 killings originate? Yugoslav president SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC was reviled as a WARMONGER. Threatened with attack including the bombing of Belgrade if he did not capitulate to Nato occupation Milosevic resisted. Yugoslavia was bombed for 78 days with massive destruction and many casualties. Abandonned by the Russians under Nato's threat to withhold funds Milosevic ceded Kosovo only to Nato. The "dictator?" was then voted out of power, kidnapped and delivered to Nato in return for huge funds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KOSOVO WAS ANNEXED, MONTENEGRO EFFECTIVELY DETACHED & COMPLIANT GOVERNMENT INSTALLED IN SERBIA. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------KOSOVO has been ETHNICALLY CLEANSED of its non-Albanian population, mainly Serbs. Thousands of Kosovo Serbs have been murdered during Nato's war and occupation. Nato has set up SHOW TRIALS not for war crimes but for those who resisted: only for Serbs. War crimes in Kosovo and Serbia include the deployment of DU, the indiscriminate use of cluster bombs dropped from three miles high into civilian areas. The deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure including flying bombs into public buildings (WTC?). Genocide of the Kosovo Serb population in their centuries old homeland.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Sunday March 17, 2002 at 4:49 pm
  Hello. Well I am not an expert, and am most likely horribly biased, being Serbian and all, but either way I will offer my 2 cents on this matter. I of course think that this trial is a waste of time and money, and to call it fair would in itself be a crime. Although it does have the bases to be fair. Milosevic is being accused of war crimes! OK! If he is accused then he should be tried. But then I am accusing US of war crimes, and atrosities, so when is this trial going to be held? And by whome? How about if Yugoslavia, Russia, Cyprus, Palestine, China and Vietnam act as the judges? Who do I need to notify? I am sure that I am not the only one who feels this way! And no the US is not the only guilty country, 98% of the world is. So if we have all of a sudden decided to get righteous and rid the world of wars and war criminals lets start from the beginning. I can name about 40 names. Can anyone else do any better?
  
  Mirjana K
  Toronto
  Canada

• Monday March 18, 2002 at 12:35 pm
  ALICE IN WONDERLAND (For Alice read Slobodan). Consider this extract from a report on the trial by Neil Tweedie in The Hague for the Daily Telegraph (UK) Filed on 16/03/2002:- --------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Milosevic challenged Lord Ashdown about the activities of the Kosovo Liberation Army, which he said had been responsible for the fighting in Kosovo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lord Ashdown countered: "I have never denied that it is a terrorist organisation." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "But nothing, nothing justifies or excuses the use of excessive, outrageous force by your armed forces under your control in an indiscriminate, punitive manner across the whole of the civilian population." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------EXACTLY the same observation may be made about Nato's aerial bombardment of Yugoslavia, lead by Tony Blair in the absence of Clinton who was morally incapacitated following an alleged incident with a cigar. With the significant exception that Nato was not being attacked by the KLA (an insurgent Islamic terrorist army part trained and armed by Nato) nor by anybody else. --------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Exactly the same observation may be made about the KLA/KPC's subsequent expulsion and Genocide of the Kosovo Serbs. -------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Exactly the same observation may be made about Bush's alliance in Afghanistan, Sharon in Palestine, Putin in Chetnya ... --------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------IS THIS TRIAL FAIR? Did Judge May rule out this testimony or did he rule that the bombardment of terror bases or potential terror bases is only allowed for non-Serbian forces, that 'collateral damage' is denied ONLY to the Serbs? Do we know? Does anyone know? -------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------An extract from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll: `No, no!' said the Queen. `Sentence first--verdict afterwards.' `Stuff and nonsense!' said Alice loudly. `The idea of having the sentence first!' `Hold your tongue!' said the Queen, turning purple. `I won't!' said Alice. `OFF WITH HER HEAD!' the Queen shouted at the top of her voice.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Tuesday March 19, 2002 at 11:44 am
  This attempt by U.S. diplomat John David Neighbor to get into Serbian archives for documentary proof was (also) DUMB. It looks like we think we don't have proof of M.'s guilt and are risking a desperate espionage act to find some. It threatens and stirs up Serb hardliners and undermines Kostunica's position and possibly even survival. Is nailing Milosevic and (only) the Serbs really worth that??
  Between the Clinton regime's criminality and the Bush government's stupidity, our foreign relations and international stature are going down the tubes.
  Whoever thought up and/or approved this stunt shows continuing, disastrously, dangerously bad judgment and should be resigned, and that includes George Tenet and/or Colin Powell.
  This is much more than just embarrassing, this time.
  
  Lou Coatney
  Macomb
  Illinois USA

• Tuesday March 19, 2002 at 9:42 pm
  These spys will get what they deserve.
  
  Ricardo Shanchez
  Merida
  Mexico

• Wednesday March 20, 2002 at 5:34 am
  An attempt by Palestinians to bring Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon before a Belgian court on charges of war crimes appears to have been thwarted. On February 14, the International Court of Justice in The Hague ruled that past and present government leaders cannot be tried for war crimes by a foreign state because of their diplomatic immunity and can only be held to account in their own country.
  
  Hans Lorenz
  Sydney
  Australia

• Wednesday March 20, 2002 at 1:39 pm
  There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics was Disraeli's jaundiced view but the emminent American mathematician Norbert Wiener, a brilliant exponent of statistics properly applied, had a more comprehensive view of the likes of Patrick Ball. In his book Cybernetics he describes them as "servants to the merchants of lies in society". Prosecution witness Patrick Ball claimed that he could prove by statistics that the killings and expulsions of Kosovo Albanians were due almost entirely to the Serb Army. The fundamental basis of his proof 'Post hoc, ergo propter hoc' is a notoriously fallacious form of reasoning in applied mathematics. Because one event follows another it cannot be implied that the first event is necessarily the cause of the second. Apart from his false reasoning his data is equally suspect. His sources he claims are Albanian border guards (they give unbiassed data?), Yugoslav government sources (they reveal the operational details of their army's campaign in Kosovo?), no operational data from Nato sources (and he'll never get any) and exhumation records. From this data he concludes that during the 78 day war the Serbs killed "10,356 Kosovar Albanians". Exhumation records: three years of extensive searching by UN examiners have found only 2000 or so victims. Many are Serbs and other minorities, many Kosovo Albanians killed by the KLA and many killed before the war. How does Ball acount for this huge discrepancy? Here is another question for these statistical extrapolations of Ball's (I use the word advisedly). In modern warfare most victims succumb to aerial bombardment, mortar bombs or tank and artillery fire. For every killing there are several seriously injured: where are these tens of thousands of seriously injured Kosvo Albanians? There are counter-intuitive results revealed by mathematical analysis but Ball's claims fly in the face of reason. We know from empirical evidence that mass exodus always follows aerial bombardment when there is somewhere else to go with food and shelter. Recent examples are Belgrade and the major Afghan cities. Why would Kosovo Albanians remain in a country being bombed when a journey of a few tens of miles would take them to the safety of Albania or Macedonia among their kinfolk and to a source of food and shelter? We do not need any other cause than the bombing although other factors might hasten or enhance the exodus. As for his dodgy data how for example did Ball treat the two horrific attacks made on refugee tractor convoys. Nato first blamed these on Serb artillery. Nato bomb fragments later forced retractions. So who's data did Ball believe and how many times did this happen? I appeal to honourable members of the American Mathematical Society to examine the validity of Ball's testimony and if they find it is flawed demand that it be expunged from court records. This may go some small way towards expunging the shame for Nato's killings in Kosovo and Serbia: especially for the of the murder of Sanja Milenkovic, a top prize winning mathematician hoping to go on to study at Harvard. Sanja, a beautiful and talented young lady aged 15 out walking on a Sunday afternoon, was one of the many killed and horribly injured during the Varvarin Bridge bombings. Is this trial fair? From the opening scenes of this court when we witnessed Carla del Ponte laughing in the face of the defendent, through Judge May's studied contempt, to the presentation and acceptance of bogus testimony we have the measure of these charlatans.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Thursday March 21, 2002 at 3:15 am
  "Law is not about truth, it is about style." It must be more stylish to be pro-Nato than to get bogged down in facts.
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Thursday March 21, 2002 at 4:36 am
  Dear Jari, thank you for confirming my points on the fairness of this trial.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Thursday March 21, 2002 at 1:27 pm
  We should demand to see the transcripts! This obvious lack of openess justifies fully people's skepticism that this trial is doing nothing more than serving the priveledged and widening the gap between truth and deception, justice and unlawfulness.
  
  Michael Kulas
  Toronto
  Canada

• Friday March 22, 2002 at 3:10 am
  My pleasure, Peter. "Law is style, not truth" is a maxim of at least one member of the International Law Committee. This shows how indifferent international lawyers are to such niceties as fair trial. International lawyers will never let Milosevic go. The purpose of the whole exercise is to demonstrate that "no-one is above the law". OK, maybe somebody is above the law (it is only too obvious), but then again, Milosevic such a monster that it is necessary to cut some corners. The teleology is this: to allow international law to redeem its rightful place at the top of the Kelsenian normative hierarchy. No matter what the blemishes the current trial had, the end is good, and that end justifies the means. Once ICTY has fulfilled its rightful purpose it can be dissolved. Once it has served its purpose we can get to the business of ensuring fair trial and other technicalities. For now, we must call Milosevic an "indicted war criminal", though this may give the impression that he is only a to-be-convicted a war criminal and, on the other hand, that there is such a species as unindicted war criminals. Let anyone who questions the wisdom of the tribunal know that they are impeding justice. Let no-one ever put the obvious question: could the tribunal be impeding justice?
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Friday March 22, 2002 at 4:38 am
  Dear Jari, You appear to be equating Nato's Law with Justice? Yes of course the will with the strongest force attendent always prevails. Or put succintly 'Might is Right'. But without Justice, REAL JUSTICE, as Hobbes put it "life is nasty, brutish and short". Might comes in many forms as the demise of the WTC demonstates. The Nazis had style, oh boy did they have style, and not a little might upon which there legal system was based (not on principles of justice). Much good did it eventually do the German people.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Friday March 22, 2002 at 5:06 am
  Dear Peter, I was talking tongue in cheek, of course, but judging by the effect it had, this might be the line of reasoning adopted by those who really call the shots here. A good comment on the deceptiveness of the "style" argument!
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Friday March 22, 2002 at 9:28 am
  all the while ICTY seems to be flawed and biased, i suggest we do not forget that Milosevic was an autocratic and brutal leader, with a lot of blood on his hands. He has also excersised a lot of bad taste, leading on a 10-year base and primitive sweep over Serbia, and has left his country impoverished through some horrendous economic fuck-ups: i mean, his 20-something son was probably one of the richest people in Yugoslavia, and that wasn`t exactly through working double shifts. The opinion that Tudjman or Kostunica are no better, surely doesn`t exempt Milosevic from his doing, at least not in my memory, if not at the ICTY. So the biggest flaw the ICTY might produce so far is blurring the fact that Mr. Milosevic is a nightmare. And that in Serbia, where it matters most. So: No to ICTY, and no to Milosevic`s demagogy.
  
  Nebojsa Matic
  Norway/Serbia

• Monday March 25, 2002 at 6:42 am
  It is obvious from reading the chain of opinions above that nearly all of the contributors to this disscussion board disagree with the trial and point to its many failings. Hipocracy, injustice, ilegality and the very guilt of Mr Milosevic. Those opinions are however a minority as most people simply choose to pick up snipets of information ingnorantly served up by the tabloid press in their desire to sell ever more copies of their product. After we have all agreed that this trial is wrong what can be done to stop it. In reality nothing. This discussion board may help us all to vent our feelings but will do nothing to change the fact that Mr Milosevic will most likely spend the rest of his life in prison for the worng reason. This brings us back to a far more important question. The one about how free we really are? My grandma, who lived through both world wars, once told me, "my dear son, with victor is the truth".
  
  Sasa Maljkovic
  
  UK

• Monday March 25, 2002 at 8:27 am
  Dear Sasha, I do not agree with you that voicing your opinions will not do anything. It is from messages boards like these that people who are not aware of all the facts and surrounding circumstances that occurred in Yugoslavia will find out what really happened. Many people who have been reading the western press have not realised how much the western press has printed lies and why they have been doing so. While I do agree with you that there is no immediate usefulness in voicing your comments there is a LONG TERM strategy at stake here. regards, Alexander A, - Australia
  
  Alexander Ardalich
  Adelaide
  South Australia/Australia

• Monday March 25, 2002 at 9:05 am
  As Gen. Wesley Clarke has openly admitted, the bombing campaign of 1999 had nothing to do with Kosovo and everything to do with the survival of Nato (which according to him was something Milosevic was unable to understand). After the collapse of the Soviet bloc, Nato had simply run out of enemies, so it had to make some. What really must have irritated Nato was that even a former communist like Milosevic (Lord Owen's words) was willing to cooperate with Nato. When one is allowed to factor in the insights of such sages Gen. Clarke and Lord Owen into the legal calculus, Milosevic's alleged "genocide and crimes against humanity" amounts to this: he or no-one else would attack or even threaten Nato. And that was exactly why he was such a threat to Nato. Nato had no choice but to make him a threat that even others could see. The end result is that it is a crime against humanity NOT to attack Nato or pose a threat to any of one's neighbour states. This situation calls for an immediate reaction from the civilised countries. What is so distressing is the fact that ICTY is inevitably seen as setting some kind of legal standards. What ICTY does today might be something the ICC, and hence the national courts, will do tomorrow. If this is a fair trial, let's hope no-one of us will ever get one. Our complaints about this process will not perhaps change the outcome of this case, but it might reach the critical mass that even the judges would have to take into account in order to be able to "sell" their verdicts (which is what the judges in normal cases are paid to do).
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Monday March 25, 2002 at 8:05 pm
  Thanks guys are those words really coming from all around the globe or is it just an ilusion?Nice to know that is somewhere there somebody like you following your own opinion and not being influenced by "democracy" which is served to the rest of the (western) world. Is nice to know that you are not one of us ,THE Serbs, but that u still find a peace of your time for our tragedy. Love u all u make me sleep better N.Golubovic Edinburgh P.S. Love and Karadzic and Mladic too and I love "pecenje" and "rakiju" and "sarmu" :-]
  
  N Golubovic
  Ednburgh
  Scotland

• Monday March 25, 2002 at 8:12 pm
  By the way my e-mail is amerenakare@hotmail.com and anyone who loves the same things is welcome
  
  N Golubovic
  Scotland

• Wednesday March 27, 2002 at 8:26 pm
  Nato went to war to help the KLA knowing that they were engaged in genocide (British foreign Minister Robin Cook told Parliament that the largest group of people killed in Kosovo were civilains of Serb nationality 2 months before going to help them). This makes Nato leaders guilty of launching an aggressive war (a war crime) & accessories to genocide (a crime against humanity). 80% of the bombing casualties were civilians, mostly hundreds of miles from the scene of the alleged conflict & Nato has confirmed deliberately targeting civilians on the attack on the Yugoslav Broadcasting Co. Deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime. Since Nato took command authority for Kosovo they have allowed the KLA (some of them wearing Nato supplied police uniforms) to ethnically cleanse 350,000 Serbs Gypsies, Macedonians, Jews etc & to murder approx 5000. This campaign of deliberate genocide is continuing every day, with Nato's practical support. Genocide & ethnic cleansing are crimes against humanity. Nato spokesman Jamie Shea said that because the Nato countries are paying for the "court" they would not be indicted & that international laws against genocide "do not apply " to Nato. There is no forensic case whatsoever against Milosovic whereas for Clinton, Blair, Albricht the case for convicting them of war crimes & genocide appears irrefutable. Incidentally after 12 years of Western media coverage of alleged Serb ethnic cleansing have seen of you seen 1 newspaper report mentioning Milosovic's failure to expel the 200,000 Moslems (including 50,000 Albanians) living in Belgrade. If we have a free press why not.
  
  Neil Craig
  glasgow
  scotland

• Wednesday March 27, 2002 at 9:42 pm
  With all due respect, I really do not believe Karadic and Mladic belong to the very same category along with S. Milosevic as well as I do not see any point of even mentioning those two names in the forum that has a clear subject and one subject only - "Will Mr. Slobodan Milosevic get a fair trial or not?" As I did before, I invite people to think with clear and straight minds, as this is not a war against Serbia or the Serbian nation and in fact really has nothing to do with such general issues. Mr. Radovan Karadic and gen. Ratko Mladic will likely take their seats in the Hague court as well, but I see no point of mentioning them at this stage. I would like my brothers and neighbours from the ex Yugoslav countries to show their civilized way and represent their brothers and neighbours some other way, rather civilized and calm than with such anger and primitivism. This forum has a single point only - to discuss matters relevant to the Milosevic case, to hear the arguments of law, maybe some facts which will make the whole issue easier to understand to both, people who are not familiar with the matter and people who pay serious attention to this trial. This is not a place for burning a virtual war with anyone. So, please, especially people like Mr. Golubovic, living in Edinburgh, show some decency as to represent your nation in the proper light, otherwise the world will get reasons to believe that the Balkan tragedy really has much to do with this incredible primitivism that leads its' residents' minds and spirits. Besides, as far as I can see, the "angriest" ones have changed their country and we could easily jump to a logical conclusion they like the West better than their proud fatherland. It's about time for you to finally bury your hatchet, otherwise you will not move further than the medieval ages, even in your new contries of residence.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Thursday March 28, 2002 at 7:36 am
  There is not just the problem of denial of fair trial (art. 6 European Convention on Human Rights) but the general principle of denial of justice altogether, which the European Court of Human Rights might be "guilty" of in its decision to declare Milosevic's application inadmissible. The Court said Milosevic should have appealed the Dutch decision handed down in August last year in order to have exhausted the local remidies. Would have this been even possible (Art. 404-406 Dutch "Strafvordering")? In any case, is that not up to the Dutch courts to decide? But they have declared the case inadmissible. What the Dutch court based its decision upon was the European Court's own decision in the case Naletilic, where it was decided that ICTY is beyond the bounds of the European Court's jurisdiction because (!) ICTY ensured fair trial. Doesn't the European Court know that by its own admission any appeal against the Dutch court's decision in the Netherland is doomed to failure by the European Court's own case law? As so often happens, declarations on inadmissibility are covert decisions on substance. Does the European Court know the Dutch law so well that they can tell Milosevic that he "should" have appealed the regional court's decision, which was no verdict, just a declaration on inadmissibility. Besides, if it is "unclear" whether Milosevic has raised any new issues at the European Court since the process in the Netherlands in August, how does that weigh in any way against the admissibility of his case at the European Court? They said it was "unclear". Again, is that not up to the hypothetical Dutch appeals court to rule on whether the application had stayed the same? Of course not, because the European Court knows the appeals procedure it has mandated has no legal basis in the Dutch law, in ICTY's own practice or the European Court's own case law.
  
  Jari Nousiainen
  Finland

• Friday March 29, 2002 at 7:30 pm
  Mr. Milosevic’s trial raises many issues both legal and moral. Mr. Golob’s point about tribalism in the Balkans is well made. His selective memory, however, bothers me since I feel that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Contemporary Slovenian history is full of tribalism and I only need to mention your World War Two Nazi past and the more recent divorce from Yugoslavia. The moral issue here is American World leadership. America does not recognize this court or any international court for its own citizens. This court, as many contributors to this discussion have stated, is a lynching. America cannot have one set of rules for others and another set of rules for herself. This court has become a place of international patronage. Mr. Ashdown will become the new ruler of occupied Bosnia, a reward for his loyal service to the crown. Madame Arbour, former prosecutor for the ICTY became Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, a reward for loyal service to my own nation. This besmirches the memory of Justice Laskin and Sopinka , persons of impeccable credentials, who guided Canada in its establishment of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This tribunal is an instrument of NATO’s international agenda and it contravenes practically every aspect of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of Canada and yet we are a party to it. I am also concerned that representatives of the Law Societies of Canada are not speaking out against this draconian court. Our New anti-terrorism legislation resembles something that ICTY might have created. As Martin Nemoller once said if we don’t speak out against injustice very soon the forces of injustice, however well meaning, will have us in the prisoner’s box.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops
  BC

• Saturday March 30, 2002 at 12:39 am
  Why is it that you do not print articles that portray Milosevic in a good light. I am able to surf the internet and find them. Yet you seem to look for those to support the Kangaroo Court. This book review of an American from the State Department is another piece of misinformation. The man is trying to make a fast buck off of Milosevic as so many have already done. If there is so much evidence against Milosevic why is it that the chief head hunter of the Kangaroo Court, Carla Del Ponte, is crying her eyes out about not being able to get the evidence she needs to convict Milosevic. Seems he was indicted without evidence.
  
  K. Love
  SJC
  CA. USA.

• Saturday March 30, 2002 at 7:16 am
  Re: walter Trkla. I completely agree with you. If you check my previous comments, you will realize that. The point I wish to make is the following: when I browse this forum, I am interested in arguments regarding to the matter of the trial, maybe some facts that will help other people worldwide to see the roght picture of last 15 years of yugoslav nations history. What I, on the other hand, do not want to see is mentioning Mr. Karadjic, gen. Mladic etc. in context of liberators, patriots etc., simply because this issue has not yet been opened. Besides, we all know the "tribalism" is the general thing, rather than a character of a specific nation.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Saturday March 30, 2002 at 7:12 pm
  Mr.Golob,how nice was to read your e-mail.At least I could see that our "brotherhood and unity" still exist.Well, with my previous e-mail and my instant feelings in it u took your best shot calling me and my nation primitive.But this is nothing new to me as that was part of the media circus which has been waged against my country for the last decade.I know it and u know it too.Well I agree that your country Slovenia has allways been step in the front in the comparance with the other republics of ex-Yugoslavia.With better infrastructure,economy,and allmost everything else your quality of life was on the first place(on the second place was Croatia).And now when the other republics are torched by the destruction you can easily say that we are primitive for you.Well, here in U.K. has been constantly served propaganda that we Serbs have been occupying force in ex-Yugoslavia and that in fact other republics and nations had been controled and used by Serbia. How then that our standard of life was that so much below your or Croatian (or even a Hungarian)? In normal circumstances occupying nation should have been better build then the occupyed. Secondly with your constatation that "this is not a war against Serbia or the Serbian nation" I will ask you to tell me please against who is then? I doubt that Milosevic,Karadzic and the rest of the leadership had been representing, leading and belonging to some other nation,which in this case would be unknown to me.Oh yes ,exuse me,I forgot that they are representing a "war crimes" nation.But not the Serbian one. You say that in this forum shouldn't be even mentioned the names of Karadzic and Mladic.You say that is ongoing discussion on subject "Will mr.Slobodan Milosevic get a fer trial or not?".Which kind a discussion on this subject would draw a clear picture of what is going on if you do not discusse of them two.Such a forum to serve its purpose of finding the truth should not be limited in any way.Quite contrary it should have a neutral approach where all opinions should be welcomed. Does not take a centrury to understand what is happening with all this "Hag tribunal" mascarade.Did you ever ask your self how come that refering to the Balkan wars in the west are allways served war crimes stories without any deeper understanding of the actual couse of the war itself?Is it possible that by highlighting the crimes comited (only by one side) during the war you can actualy find the one who is responsible for that war happening? As far as I know this is now happening for the first time in history. And I would like to explaind to all of you one thing which is mostly understood wrongly even by my fellow Serbs. West DOES NOT hate us Serbs.Not becouse we are Serbs.We are absolutely not important to them.They didn't stood against us becouse of religion neither becouse we are close to Russians as it is understood by majority. Nither becouse we were bad or have comitted more war crimes then Croatians or someone else in this tragedy. The future generations to come will study the subject from different approach .They will learn of one country wich existed as a bridge between east and west and was the model of multyethnicity where all nations has lived in harmony and respect.But they would learn also how its importance as a buffer country has disapeared with the end of the cold war.They would learn about how some European countries has helped, encouraged and in the end used different separatist and nationalist groupations to destroy a potential competitor and realise ther own interest.They would learn of Germany ,America and NATO.All equaly guilty. And then they would learn of some unlucky bastards THE SERBS wich was the only one to stand against the linch of them loved Yugoslavia.If anyone else ither Croatians,Slovenians,Albanians,Montenegrins,Macedonians,Bosnians or even Hungarians had took the role of the Serbs in preventing the end of Yugslavia ad fighting under Yugoslav name would be demonised, proclamed guilty and even primitive as mr. Golob has said.You have to be blind to don't see this . Well look at Albanians at Kosovo for example. They are still killing, raping,burning and torturising the remaining Serbs even tree years now after the war is finished .But big daddy from "German-American family" still remembers who was its main contributor in making the crisis in Yugoslavia.And that is simply it.All the sins are forgiven and justified in who knows which way. Such a bullshit. That is how the things are mr.Golob and I am sure u know it too.But this e-mail is not for you, simple becouse it is not clear to me with wich interest are you taking place in this forum.This is adressed to all other people who didn't experience Yugoslav tragedy and about it are reading from different sources but who still have brain to open such a discussion. I will again say THANKS and my respect to all of you out there. P.S. Sorry for that so long e-mail hope does not contain too many spelling mistakes :-)
  
  Novica Golubovic
  Edinburgh
  SCOTLAND

• Saturday March 30, 2002 at 10:37 pm
  Re: Novica Golubovic Novica, the brotherhood and unity in fact still exist, or at least should still exist. If you check our surnames, you will see almost the same name. If I tell you I was born in Serbia, you might be surpised. If I tell you that my grandmother still lives there, you would be even more surprised. That I suffered together with my freinds and relatives while the bombing raid was destroying my city of birth. When I say "primitivism", it goes for all of us, including me, all of people from Triglav to Vardar, Adria to Derdap. Yes, I realize, Serbian residents have suffered more - first the consequences of the wide yugoslav civil war, then embargo, then terroristic activities and then the bombing raid. By now you certainly see what I mean - if not - check the my message again, and then check the forum archives. What I don't want to see is such anger and defensive. I realize this is one of the consequences, it just might be justified by all you probably have suffered, but still you, as well as me, have to be critical to ourselves to remain decent and show the world that yugoslav nations were in fact in bortherhood. This would be the only way to prove what we both have described through this forum. However, by mottos and parols such as "Amere na kare", as reads your e-mail address, we will not move forward. We should avoid such things for this is the hatchet we should bury. Noone will blame anyone of being upset, but the anger, hate, revenge may always be evaluated as primitivism, which in this case represents us all, not you or a specific nation. I am sure you agree.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia

• Sunday March 31, 2002 at 12:34 pm
  Dear Bojan,after reading your previous messages from the archive i have come to a conclusion that although our opinions are different (specificaly reffering to Karadic and Mladic) I realise that I have been maybe too hard with my critics towards you but I am sure you understand. We Serbs have become the most paranoid nation, suspicious to everything and everyone, especialy towards the comments coming from other ex-Yugoslav republics. Best regards Novica P.S. My e-mail address stays the same. I wish I could change its name but how things are going it will stay "alive" for quite some time.Also if you knew me privately you would know why it is like it is.
  
  Novica Golubovic
  Edinburgh

• Sunday March 31, 2002 at 2:11 pm
  Bojan & Novica it seems that even after everything that has been done there is still some fellow feeling between you, which is probably the most hopeful thing i have seen about Yugoslavia for years. I don't know what "Amere na kare" means but if it implies something unfriendly about the people (mainly German & American but all western Europe is to blame) who deliberately financed, armed & went to war to help genocidal monsters destroy your joint country that would not seem unreasonable. I only wish that there was an honest court willing to bring charges against the KLA, Croatian Nazi leaders, Alia (late of the Handzar Division of the SS)Izetbegovic, Kohl & Clinton. It took nearly 30 years to arrest Pinochet - perhaps the world is improving.
  
  neil craig
  Glasgow
  Scotland

• Sunday March 31, 2002 at 10:09 pm
  Re: Novica - no problem, I try to imagine how you feel, considering that even I am not comfotable with all what happened and is still happening. Re: Neil - The world in fact is improving or has tendence for improvement, all we need to do is to allow it by consideration, understanding and looking forward. It's quite popular in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia to describe the war as an ethnic war between the nations, wherein Serbs were the bad guys and all the others were the good ones. Well, the truth is far away from it. The world should realize that, during the war, not nations fight, but the armies. The world should realize that ex Yugoslav army was such a force that could easily brake any of the small regional "armies". But there was really no such war here. There were some enthusiasts who happened to be armed and by that power they wanted to revenge to their neighbours for having bigger and better cows and chicken. This thing, unfortunately, expanded to huge conflicts between the neighbourhoods. But still, all the good people who don't have blood on their hands shouldn't be blamed, this is why I like my Serbian friends and care about their country, which is really beautiful. Not to mention they make the best parties and they have the best culinarics in the world! Only that it is not as popular as French, but it will become. It certainly will.
  
  Bojan Golob
  Slovenia