MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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• discussion archive

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 12:00 am
  Thank you Vera,

  Your posts are always enlightening and always a pleasure to read.

  There is a saying that "there is no honor among thieves." Unfortunately, the DOS seems to be a case in point.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 12:34 am
  JP,

  The attack against and invasion of Iraq has served only to increase our problems with terrorism 10 fold. Osama bin Laden now has us exactly where he wants us -- creating his propaganda for him all over the world.

  Even an intelligence official hiding behind the pseudonym of "anonymous" has written about it quite clearly. I'm sure that's not news to most people here, but it is very interesting and worth mentioning. I think you, particularly, should read the reviews of the book.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 1:23 am
  D. Jovanovic,

  I think its a matter of consistency. I'll always support the people who are defending themselves from terrorism.

  I support the Serbs, I support the Israelis and I support the Russians in the Chechnya conflict.

  I think this is why Ruder-Finn so aggresively targeted the Jews, because Serbia and Israel are natural allies. Both nations are engaged in similar struggles, and both the Serbs and the Jews share some common history from the Second World War.

  There is even some room for speculation that Israel did provide some covert aid to some Serbian volunteer units. Look at this rather odd interview with Arkan:

  HEADLINE: ISRAEL TV INTERVIEWS SERBIA'S RAZNATOVIC ABOUT SITUATION IN KOSOVO

  SOURCE: Channel 2 TV, Jerusalem, in Hebrew 1800 gmt 30 Apr 99

  BODY: Excerpts from recorded interview with Zelko Raznatovic, alias Arkan, leader of the Party of Serbian Unity, by Itay Engel in Belgrade; date not given; broadcast in English by Israel TV on 30th April with Hebrew subtitles and transcribed from the English Engel What exactly is Arkan?

  Raznatovic Well, I am not sure I can tell you all about him in front of the camera... To tell you the truth, I don't give a damn. I know it's a political court. It is a pure political court. It is not a court of justice. That court has nothing to do with justice. You see, I am one of the forces in this country. I can raise volunteers. I can fight back. That is why in this very particular moment, they picked up my name and they put in the Western media that I am a war criminal, and they put in Western media that everyone who is related with me is going to be prosecuted in The Hague. So you are in danger, too, because you make an interview with me. See? I mean, it is funny, and I really don't give a damn for that court. Believe me.

  Q Well, are you saying that all the accusations about Bosnia are really nothing?

  A In Bosnia, we had a conflict.

  Q Why did they declare you as a war criminal? They said that you are responsible for the ethnic cleansing. Maybe you can give us your side of the story ?

  A Of course not. I only protect people, the Serbs there, and not ethnic cleansing, because I have nothing against the people in Bosnia. You heard about mujahidin in Bosnia. They have brigades of mujahidin in Bosnia. So they come in a Serbian village, they used to rape Serbian women, they killed Serbian children. They cut their heads. To the men also. So I was Serb who was protecting. I was after mujahidin. I was fighting them, and I was very successful in that fight...

  It was very difficult because I couldn't witness - I love football. I live for football, really. But what can I do? That is how the life is. Many of your politicians, they were, I guess, at the time terrorists. They were on a wanted list. They were all this and that, and then they became heads of state in Israel. So I have great sympathy for your history and for those people, all of them...

  I can talk about it, of course. We have great sympathy from the Israeli people and government, maybe not officially but here and there we have a good relationship with the Israeli people.

  Q Anything beyond sympathy?

  A I myself, I personally love the Israeli people very much. I have many friends in Tel Aviv, in Jerusalem, and I send them my best regards...

  Q There is the accusation now that your people, the Tigers, are operating once again in Kosovo.

  A No, my people are not yet in Kosovo, because my people are highly trained men. In Kosovo, we have regular police force and we have regular army force. We have no special units in Kosovo. So we have some, probably, antiterrorist unit. They are after terrorists. My men are training, and they will be ready for the NATO troops.

  Q But the Albanian refugees say that they had been attacked and deported by the Tigers.

  A No, of course not. I will tell you one thing. This is pure propaganda from CNN; this is pure propaganda from Sky and from BBC, the stations which are operating for the United States government and the NATO. Not even one Tiger at the moment is in Kosovo. I guarantee: Not even one. Because if the tigers are in Kosovo, I would be in Kosovo too. Because I go first and then my men are going behind me. That is the difference in my army, in my units. I always go first...

  Q Finally, Mr Arkan, when, if at all, are you going to join this war?

  A If NATO comes with ground troops, I will be first to enjoy this fight.

  Q And then what practically will you do?

  A I will fight. I will kill anyone who comes to my country, anyone who wants to take and kill my wife or my children.

  Q And you think you have a chance against a force like NATO?

  A Of course we have a chance. Why do you think we don't have a chance? We will fight to the last man.

  Q It will be like Vietnam for the United States.

  A It will be worse than Vietnam. Vietnam will be a joke for them. In a war - and I was in war before - someone wears a big hat, he is a winner. And Serbs, we have very big hats.

  LOAD-DATE: May 3, 1999

  Copyright 1999 British Broadcasting Corporation BBC Monitoring Middle East - Political Supplied by BBC Worldwide Monitoring

  May 2, 1999, Sunday

  LENGTH: 714 words
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 2:09 am
  Nations are what their history has made them. If you know the history of Palestine stop reading here if not read on and you might get a different perspective on the events in Palestine.

  In 1918 Arab leaders hoped that a series of independent Arab states would be created out of the Turkish Empire. Britain had proposed the division of much of that Empire with France. The Sykes-Picot agreement came to nothing. (Secret agreement to divide the Arab world while at the same time promising them independence).

  In November 1917 Britain issued the Balfour Declaration, promising ‘a national home for the Jewish people’ in Palestine. The Mandate Palestine, Jordan, Saudi Arabia was mandated to Britain while Syria, Iraq and Lebanon were mandated to France.

  In the 1920’s some 10 000 Jews entered Palestine each year. Arabs protested, although the British assured them that what had been promised was ‘a home for the Jewish people’ and not a ‘Jewish national state’.1929 Arabs rioted and attacked Jewish homes and property. 1933 Jews rioted because of British restrictions on immigration. Hitler’s attacks on German Jews led to increased numbers trying to enter Palestine. By 1937 there were 400 000 Jews in Palestine: many of them were better-educated than most Arabs.

  The Jews were supported by money from world Jewry; this, and their own ability, enabled them to buy up land, set up businesses and prosper. Arab guerillas attacked Jewish farms, homes and businesses.

  In 1937 A commissions, under Lord Peel, recommended the partition of Palestine into: an Arab state; a Jewish state and British Mandate for Jerusalem and Bethlehem.

  Partition was rejected as an idea by Jews and Arabs. It was also condemned by the Mandates Commission. In1938 another Commission, under Sir John Woodhead, said that Arabs and Jews were so tangled up that partition was impossible. In 1939 A Round Table Conference was tried. This failed too.

  In May 1939 A White Paper (or outline of future policy) promised an end to Jewish immigration once another 75 000 had been admitted. This meant that the Balfour Declaration (home for the Jews) was to be abandoned in the face of Arab hostility and violence and since Britain’s needed the friendship of Arab states, with their oil fields and strategic ports they did not support the Jewish aspirations for a homeland. In 1922 Winston Churchill tried to pacify Arabs by saying that the British promised only a national home and not a Jewish state. In1929 Arabs rioted on a large scale against the 100,000 Jewish settlers who provided themselves with their own security force, the Hagannah.

  In the 1930’s to pacify the Arabs, Britain imposed restrictions in on Jewish immigration. This led to Jewish riots against the British.In1933, Hitler came to power and the demand for entry into Palestine increased. In 1936 some 60,000 Jews were allowed in.

  By 1937 there were 400,000 Jews in Palestine; by 1939 some 600,000 facing a hostile 1,000,000 Arabs.

  The Jews became more prosperous because of their hard work, technical skills and aid from abroad.

  They bought land from Arabs and watched ‘the desert bloom’; 1937 a major rising by Arabs (‘the Arab Revolt’) led to the Peel Commission which reported that the Mandate could not work and that Palestine ought to be divided. The Arabs rejected this suggestion of a Jewish state.

  During 1939-45 the persecution of the Jews by Hitler, many tried to get to Palestine. The British restricted the numbers allowed in so that thousands tried to get in illegally.

  Between1945-47 There was a world-wide sympathy with the Jews once the news of the concentration camps became better known. Bevin, British Foreign Minister, wishing to please the Arabs, tried to restrict the numbers allowed into Palestine. The Arabs, angered by the continuous wave of illegal immigrants, attacked Jewish settlements. The Hagannah defended these settlements

  Jews also organized terrorist gangs, the Irgun and the Stern Gang, which used the tactics used by partisans fighting against German occupation. Police stations, army posts, government buildings were attacked by bombs and gunmen. Arab villages were attacked and women and children were killed indiscriminately by the Irgun and the Stern Gang. Future president David Ben Gurion was a member of one of these gangs.

  As the British were giving their Indian Empire its independence. They were also withdrawing from Greece and it is not surprising that they felt unable to maintain their control of Palestine.

  Uncle Sam (Truman) to the rescue. Truman, President of the USA, fighting an election campaign asked the British to admit more Jews. This was the last straw as far as the Arabs were concerned.

  Bevin handed the problem to the UNO and on 14 May 1948 Britain withdrew her forces from Palestine after the Jews dynamited the King David hotel killing some seventy British officers.

  The Jews immediately announced the creation of their own state and named it Israel. The UN suggestion was a division of Palestine. This was rejected by the Arabs who preferred to try to drive the Jews out. In the war for independence the Jews (Israelis) drove over a million Palestinians out of their homes and land. It is these Palestinians who have become members of the terrorist organization that we know as the PLO and dozen other splinter terrorist groups.

  Are the Jews justified in their war against the Palestinians? Not any more than the KLA is justified in their war against the Serbs. This is a moral crisis for both the Jews and the KLA. Clarence Darrow once said that “infinite misfortune of moral deformity calls forth nothing but hatred and vengeance”. The Jews know this and act out of fear, the KLA and America will learn this just as the Ottomans did.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops BC
  Canada

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 6:06 am
  

  Rebecka

  So apart from the minority rogue element, US soldiers are babes in the woods delivering flowers and candy to places like YU, Middle East, Latin America, Afghanistan and so on? In fact they work for the Salvation Army rather than the US Army?

  The mothers of children whose legs and arms are blown off by the bombs, shells and bullets these soldiers deliver will be gratified to know that the US politicians have dumped these innocent young lambs into doing their dirty work for them in the name of patriotism and democracy or some other similar catchcry.

  Of course, the typical US soldier is there to do good and his/her weapons are purely for self protection from people who are defending their own countries and lifestyles from the well meaning tanks, howitzers, B52s, Cruise missiles etc.

  The people operating these gadgets have no idea of their effects! They have no idea of the real reasons why they are operating these gadgets. They simply do it because it's the "right" thing to do and because it's their "job".

  If the preceding is true as you would have me believe, then I have to conclude that the vast majority of GIs must be a bunch of naive and gullible morons. Then again, they may be of the same mind as JP in which case they fully appreciate why they are where they are. Even more reason for them, or for you, to fight for improved education standards!
  
  David
  Australia

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 6:17 am
  

  Rebecka

  PS Are you also of the same opininon about the "bluecoats" who slaughtered hundreds of thousands/millions of Native Americans because the latter refused to surrender their land and lives to them?
  
  David
  Australia

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 6:49 am
  

  Ignorance makes it all possible.

  The Nazi and the Zionist came to an agreement, their view on nations and exclusive national rights shared many important points. Both wanted a pure nation free of other corrupting culture and impurities, the Nazi wanted a pure Aryan nation, the Zionist wanted a pure Jewish nation and if the Nazi considered the soil of Germany sacred to them so did the Zionist felt about Palestine, their biblical land. The Zionist wanted to free their holly land from the occupier, not unlike the crusaders had wanted to free the holly Christian land from the muslim despite history and time, and their 80 years long kingdom of Jerusalem became in peoples mind a thousand years kingdom,

  I am not going to tell you the whole story and if anyone cares it can be found in a rather journalistic version, in Eichmann in Jerusalem that thin, packed with details and the heavy weight of history, account of the abduction and trial of Adolph Eichmann in Jerusalem. All written rather well by Hanna Arendt where she describes how Eichmann in 1938 finds himself in Haifa ready to meet Zionist agents to negotiate the emigration from Germany to British Palestine of the Reich Jews, the complicated details on how to let the German Jews use their financial assets in Germany to import to Palestine German agricultural and other machinery and goods to the future state.

  The British were not thrilled and Eichmann and his party including a couple (they are so useful) of journalists were arrested and sent to Cairo, also at the time under British control. The meeting with the Zionist agents took place there, there were press reports of the meeting which of course and for the record it was said to be a failure but history teaches us it wasn't at least while it lasted and the policy born out of it became known and later mostly forgotten as the Transfer Agreement

  With the arrival of the war, the second World War that is, in September of 1939 traveling and shipping from Germany to the British Mandate of Palestine became impossible and the agreement died, so to speak a natural death.

  There is no comparison between the struggle for independence of the Palestinian people and the conflict in the Serbian province of Kosovo-Metojhia for the Albanian nation was gifted by the British when they conceded to the creation in 1912 of an Albanian state out of the spoils and conflicts between the Ottoman and British empires. The Palestinians, nor the Arabs also caught between Turks and British rivalries weren't so lucky.

  In Chechnia, that old needle in the Caucuses, Lev Tolstoy served in uniform there in his youth, was taken captive for ransom, escaped and wrote later a beauty of a short story based on his experience. In recent years even a film has been made Prisoners of the Mountain I think it is called.
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 6:59 am
  

  President Truman, that American president whom his wife never lived in the White House, nor in Washington (!) was undecided about the creation of the state of Israel. But torrents of Zionist, what shall we call it, elections contributions persuaded him to change his mind and enthusiastically voted for it at that fateful UN Security Council meeting.

  Truman was reelected.
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 10:05 am
  Dennis Miller, contributing humorist to The Daily Standard and a writer, actor and comedian weighs in:

  The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation!"

  HELLO-O-O-O-O !!! http://www.masada2000.org/palestine-myth.html
  
  Joel Aksamit
  Cleveland MO
  USA

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 10:53 am
  Andy, Wasn't Ruder-Finn also the "Public Relations" firm hired by the KLA?

  In fact they convinced the Media that Arkan was a 'Gangster'. Sad when our news only comes from Public relations Firms.

  David, How very sad that you can only look at things from your own perspective. You are unable to understand that there are millions of people in this country AND YOURS, who have been deluded by our Administrations.

  How very fortunate you were not one of those so deluded. You understood the "delusions" from your earliest childhood???

  Nowhere have I said the wars were justified. Quite the opposite. However your Holier Than Thou attitude does not take into account that those kids are every bit the victims. Millions have died simply because they were deluded into believing what they did was right.

  "As to the Bluecoats who slaughtered the Indians." It seems you are again looking at the actions of others, only from your own perspective. Of course they were wrong, but since you didn't LIVE their lives, you have no right to determine what they UNDERSTOOD of right and wrong.

  The problem with this world is those in Power who DECEIVE the ignorant masses into believing their wars are justified and the educated masses who allow them to do so.

  Before we started bombing Iraq, the majority was AGAINST doing so. What happened? As soon as the bombing started, the majority became a minority. Why? Because we have been brought up to believe the Administration is right and because too many of us are willing to accept anything they say as Gospel.

  Tell me. What have YOU done to change the views of your Government? Your Government is, after all, much more culpable in sending those kids to do their dirty work. What have YOU done to make those kids understand that war is wrong?

  It is gratifying to learn that you came from the womb understanding that war is wrong. That YOU have never done any wrong. That YOU are as pure as driven snow.

  Unfortunately, until you have lived in the shoes of even one of those kids, you have no right to pass Judgement. They didn't have YOUR superior knowledge....

  I will grant that the Officers should have learned better. Many did. Many, many of the rank and file of the Military has also learned better. You prefer to lump them all in YOUR idea of imperfection.

  Until YOU can convince the Australian Governemnt to stop recruiting for their military, please stop Judging the kids that fall for their spin. You don't have any idea of what caused those kids to fall for their lies.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 11:06 am
  How very convenient???

  Iraqis Dig Up Mass Graves Near Holy City 1 hour, 28 minutes ago

  By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI, Associated Press Writer

  KHAN AL-RUBEA, Iraq - With shovels and their bare hands, Iraqis on Sunday excavated a mass grave filled with the remains of dozens of people who witnesses said were executed after a 1991 Shiite uprising

  Fragments of watches, a woman's blue slipper, pieces of black cloaks worn by Iraqi women and bloody clothing were found at the gravesite about 13 miles northwest of Najaf, a holy city for Shiite Muslims. Bullet casings also were found near the graves.

  About 25 bodies were dug up on Saturday, and 10 had been identified. About 20 more sets of remains were uncovered Sunday. It was unclear how many bodies were buried at the site, but several mounds were visible on the flat farmland - hills that U.S. Marines in the area said could mark additional gravesites.

  Some bodies had identification cards in their pock

  Atttention David. When they say the US Marines said, they do not mean regular GIs...

  It is interesting that they dug the bodies up yesterday and also "identified" 10 of them....that some had IDs in their "pockets". What are "sets" of remains?????

  How does a body, pockets, colors, "bloody clothing", etc., keep from decomposing for 12 years??? Especially bloody clothing???
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 11:24 am
  Walter

  Much of what you said is true, however some of it reminds me of Kosovo propaganda. Remember any good lie is 95% truth.

  Consider this David Horowitz response to an article attack his column.

  I gave the source of the 1948 figure for Jews in Israel. I stand by it. There would be no Arab refugees if 5 Arab states had not attacked Israel at birth. The claim that the Israelis ethnically cleansed the region is false and does not square with the fact that the Israeli press at the time complained about the Arab "fifth column" who fled "at the first sign of trouble" (i.e., when the nation was attacked) or that the Israelis gave the Arabs who did not flee more rights than they have in any Arab state. HaCohen doesn't mention the 600,000 Jews driven from their ancestral homes in the Arab Middle East who wound up as refugees in Israel (and whom the Israelis took care of in contrast to the Arab states including Palestinian Jordan who did not take care of the Palestinian refugees).

  Sounds somewhat similiar to the tactics used in Kosovo does it not? Albanians flooded Kosovo with immigration and excessive birthrates-, cried oppression when there life style left them in poverty, carried out terrorist activities based on these allegations, and then fled the carnage they themselves invited, screaming 'the inhumanity of it all' Give me a break.

  For a comprehensive study of this MO, study the history of the Roman Catholic Church. The book 'The secret history of the Jesuits' is a good place to start and should be required reading in every classroom in the world.
  
  Joel Aksamit
  Cleveland Mo
  USA

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 11:30 am
  http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/biography/arendt.html

  Actually, there was a lot more to Hanna Arendt. She was a Zionist, and she also had the idea that there is a REASON why people do the things they do.

  >According to Arendt, then, Eichmann had done evil not because he had a sadistic will to do so, nor because he had been deeply infected by the bacillus of anti-Semitism, but because he failed to think through what he was doing (his thoughtlessness). <

  Maybe the world would be better off if everyone started to THINK. Course, we ALL need something to initiate that old thought process. A trigger so to speak.

  Luckily some have found the 'trigger'. They might keep in mind that without it THEY wouldn't be so sinless.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 4:17 pm
  Some minor historical notes:

  November 1983

  Secretary of State and former Bechtel President George Schultz receives an intelligence report describing Saddams “almost daily “use of chemical weapons. No action was taken.

  December 1983

  Special envoy, Donald Rumsfeld is sent to mee with Saddam. They discuss a possible pipeline from Iraq to Jordan, to be constructed by Bechte..

  1985

  The U.S. eventually condemns Iraq’s use of W.M.D’s but pipeline talks until the end of the year when the deal falls apart-reportedly because Saddam feels Bechtel is overpricing the job.

  1988

  Sill, Bechtel does manage to secure a contract with Saddam-to build a huge CHEMICAL PLANT outside Baghdad.

  April 2003

  Donald Rumsfeld is secretary of Defense, Saddam is history, and George Schultz is a board member at Bechtel-which has just been awarded a 4 680 million Iraq Reconstruction contract!
  
  D. Jovanovic
  USA

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 9:24 pm
  

  Rebecka

  Cut out the spin, love. The issue is not whether I personally have a responsibility for what soldiers do. The issue is not what I happen to do about it, though I do quite a lot in that area. The issue is that these people, whether they are deluded or not, go out and actually KILL people! The issue is that they are actually TAUGHT and TRAINED to kill people! The issue is that they are not CONSCRIPTS drafted against their will. The issue is that they make CAREERS out of such activity. The issue is that they need to be better INFORMED as to what they are actually doing. The issue is that they need to be more aware of the consequences of their actions and that such actions are not welcome by other people. The issue is that no amount of excuses or justifications or bleeding heart stories is going to discourage them from performing their actions. The issue is that sympathy for their personal causes and predicaments is not going to discourage them. The issue is that their ignorance needs to be converted to knowledge. Nothing to do with my own point of view or justification for my point of view. The issue is that they actually kill other people for a cause many of them MAY consider to be noble! As if the victims' cause of self defence is NOT so noble! Sure the commanders and the politicians are MORE responsible, but that does not exculpate any of the other soldiers from their own personal responsibilities and the knowledge that they are KILLING others, no matter how deluded they may be about their own cause or their "job". Making sad luck story excuses for them just serves to let them off the hook rather than educate and discourage them.

  As for having to live someone's life in order to understand right or wrong from their perspective, give it a pass, love. I don't have to be in your shoes to understand that attacking someone who has not attacked you is an unwelcome act of aggression.

  No need for excuses, we all know there are plenty of sheep around, what is required are some decent shepherds for a change, shepherds who can at least teach the sheep not to stray. Otherwise we just blame the wolves, or so you say. But that gets us nowhere as more and more sheep are lost. Try keeping a closer eye on the flock instead of just letting them wander.
  
  David
  Australia

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 11:39 pm
  David Lin Yutang, if I can paraphrase, wrote that when you have too many policemen individual freedom is compromised. When you have too many lawyers justice is compromised and when you have too many soldiers there can be no peace.

  A doctor examining the suitability of a perspective recruit for army service told the recruit to sit down. The recruit promptly obeyed and the doctor certified him A-1. The recruit complained that the doctor did not even examine him, to which the doctor responded “You heard me tell you to sit down, you saw the chair and had enough intelligence to carry out the order”. Most soldiers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer; if they were they would not be in the army.

  A Canadian soldier was interviewed recently about Canada’s non participation in the attack on Iraq. He responded by saying that he and his unit were deprived of combat experience. Only a fool would give an answer such as this. I guess he just wanted to be in a parade no matter how many Iraqis he killed, or he wanted to have some stories to swap with his buddies as he swilled beer at a local Legion Hall. “It’s not for us to reason why?” War is business and business is war the soldiers are widgets used for profit of others. David don’t insult the sheep they are a peaceful lot.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops BC
  Canada

• Sunday May 04, 2003 at 11:44 pm
  http://pathos.spyd.net/military.html

  BTW, Yasser Arafat must have the patience of an angel.

  The demonisation (in the US anyway) of him, and the Palestinian cause makes what happened to Milosevic and the Serbs in this regard look positively benign.
  
  Dennis Revell
  USA

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 4:38 am
  

  The Trial of Eternal Darkness is OnYasser Arafat is very sick, he can't hardly walk.

  
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 5:15 am
  

  Dennis

  Your pathos link is pretty good. My point is that anyone who so completely surrenders themselves to such complete obedience either is a fool or believes they're better off that way than otherwise. If they voluntarily surrender so completely to someone else, they voluntarily become their agents and instruments. In either case, one may feel sorry for such individuals but that does not excuse them unless of course they are mentally impaired to the point where they cannot realise what they are doing. Helping them to wave the banner of patriotism and love of country is not a sufficient remedy, even if people like Rebecka are more than willing to provide it for them.

  Walter

  You're right, the sheep analogy was simply to highlight that even "sheep" can be encouraged to think for themselves and to do something to help themselves and to take some responsiblity for their actions rather than blame someone else for their "helpless" existence. Otherwise, my apologies to the real sheep. :-)
  
  David
  Australia

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 5:25 am
  Rebecka,

  Ruder-Finn was the PR Firm for the KLA, the Government of Croatia, and the Izetbegovic regime in Sarajevo. Ruder-Finn also does projects for the U.S. Government, for example they put together the website www.ready.gov for the Dept. of Homeland Security.

  Click here to read a very revealing interview on the subject.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 7:53 am
  Re: Personal responsibility of GIs

  Guys, try to be more constructive and less offensive!

  Dear Rebecka,

  One way to balance your opinion on such a controversial issue is to try to put yourself in place of those "on the receiving end". How would you treat foreign soldiers invading and destroying your country and killing your people: as high professionals just doing their jobs, as mentally retarded, or as kids?
  
  Pasha Ponomarenko
  Australia

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 8:02 am
  Dennis

  Arafat is the nephew of a Nazi collaborator who helped organize muslims to aid in the holocaust. Little Arafat was an enthusiastic student of this 'angel' and is not even 'palestinian'. I see no need to demonize this piece of crap. The truth should suffice.

  The 'Palestinian' cause is to drive the Jew into the sea. This is the often stated purpose of it's leaders and their children are taught to hate Jews from their birth.

  Negotiate with that.
  
  Joel Aksamit
  Cleveland Mo
  USA

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 11:12 am
  Vera, I think Isakov crossed the line when he supported Kostunica in presidential election. Now is time to pay the price for that misjudgment (you know the Serbs, they don't forgive)
  
  D(ragisha) Jovanovic
  Toronto
  Canada

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 12:45 pm
  David, I am NOT your 'love'. I find it repulsive in the extreme that a person would use such a term for a perfect stranger.

  If you cannot understand how narrow minded you are being, I am probably wasting my time, because you have all these neat niches where you compartmentalize people, and every member of every group is equally guilty of your charges???

  It appears you have some difficulty comprehending what you are reading or that you just prefer to ignore it. Or that you really can't follow a train of thought.

  You go on and on about the culpability of individual soldiers then come up with this???

  > No need for excuses, we all know there are plenty of sheep around, what is required are some decent shepherds for a change, shepherds who can at least teach the sheep not to stray. Otherwise we just blame the wolves, or so you say. But that gets us nowhere as more and more sheep are lost. Try keeping a closer eye on the flock instead of just letting them wander.<

  One would almost believe you have a split personality.

  I am going to post a full page ad that was taken out in the Washington Post on 2 (TWO) separate occasions by 500 Allied Airmen POWs from WWII.

  First, there is something you need to keep in mind. In this country the members of the Air Force are the most educated of any of the Military branches. follow me so far???

  Second, you have to understand WHAT you are reading. These guys BELIEVED what they had been told prior to going on their missions. They had no experience of catching their Commanders in a lie....

  Maybe if you would read the following post a few times it would sink in..........
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 12:51 pm
  Joel

  Negotiate with that?

  Analyse this:

  About the time you talk about, the well known Mufti's time, anti-semitism, or I should really say anti-'jewism' - the bulk of the Palestinians also being semites, anyway, anti-semitism was endemic throughout the World.

  The Zionists exploited this to the detriment of both Jews (indigenous Jews) who wanted to be peaceful, and the Palestinian Arabs. One example of this was a meeting between Eichman and the Zionists to discuss the transfer of hundreds of thousands of unwanted European Jews to Palestine.

  Round about this same period, both the US and the UK refused entry to WW II Jews fleeing the European mainland, resulting in many of them returning to their deaths.

  The demographic changes ref. Albanians and Serbs in KosovO has been discussed here before. Examination of that 'same phenomenon' during the first half of the last century, ref. between Jews and Arabs in Palestine reveals an even more striking example of that same 'phenomenon'. This accelerated madly following the founding of the World Zionist Organization in 1897 (Arabs then around 95% of the population), itself partly a manifestion of increasing anti-'semitism' in Europe.

  Prior to this, there was very little trouble between Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian (indigenous) Jews.

  Europe was effectively passing on its own anti-'semitism' problem onto Palestine. Trouble is, it wasn't an unoccupied region. But who cares, eh? Just another rock in the third world. Anyway, it passed the problem on not entirely unsuccessfully, as witnessed by Arafat's old uncle.

  However, those old fogey racist and still colonialist-minded largely anti-semitic Europeans, actually had given the old Mufti and other Palestinians arguably much more genuine reasons to become anti-'semitic', than those Europeans ever had.

  The Brits. were the original creators of the problem, playing both ends against each other, making cynical promises to each side that were virtually logical opposites, and therefore impossible to deliver. When they gave up and handed the mandate over to the UN, along with their history of impossible contradictory promises, the UN hardly managed the problem any better, thanks to:-

  Truman. Before the UN got handed the Mandate, Truman stepped in and in typically cack-handed American fashion, made the problem even worse. In fact, he literally threatened the British with a big stick, as they made a final limp-wristed attempt to recover somewhat on their earlier duplicity with the Palestinians (having promised them independence for their help, or at least their passivity in both WW I and WW II). This was when Truman forced the reluctant Brits to back down on restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine immediately following WW II. He sent warships to make his point.

  Of course, it was kind of understandable, just after WW II, who couldn't feel sympathy for European Jewry? Problem is, two wrongs don't make right. Zionism and the demographic changes it purposely encouraged and caused, often illegally, (think Mexico, or Albania) had been causing gradually increasing problems in Palestine for the whole of the first half of the 20th Century, as Europe's anti-semitism problem was gradually passed on to Palestine. "Terrorism" from both sides, of course, but not more from the Palestinian side than the Zionist side by no means all directed at the Palestinians - King David Hotel, and blown up British nurses and troops, and all that.

  I just wonder what your reaction would be if a scheme was hatched to eliminate the population of Missouri, gradually at first, but with the writing on the wall, so to speak, as the claims of the newcomers to be returning to "their land", are heard from the very start? A land none of them were born in, nor had ever visited. Is it not possible that you might want to drive them into the sea?

  Well, may be not right at first, but then when the UN comes in and declares that half of Missouri is given over as a sovereign state to the newcomers, without the agreement of the other half; hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that other half invaded.

  That and later attempts having failed, then realising that is not a practical option, to honestly settle for a very modest 22% of that which used to be wholly populated by 'original' Missourians (whatever people from Missouri are called)?

  Finally, it seems to be more than inflexible to ascribe Arafat's opinions as set in concrete, and that they must be just the same as his uncle's, however an enthusiastic a student of his he was.

  If you're looking for a real piece of crap there shouldn't be any need to demonise, you'd do no better to look at he of Sabra and Chatila. Sharon's got to be the nearest the Israelis have come to voting for the likes of those who once tried to exterminate their forbears.
  
  Dennis Revell
  USA

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 12:53 pm
  This ad was purchased shortly after the bosnian War and again just after the start of Kosovo.

  Open letter-April 9, 1999 To Our Troops In The Former Yugoslavia

  "We Found Out The Truth About the Serbs...When We Were Shot Down" World War II Rescued American Airmen Defend Serbs By Richard L. Felman Over 500 MlAs Saved By The Serbian People During WWII

  During World War II, we were in the Army Air Corps list as "Missing in Action" in the very same area you are now serving. If we may, we would like to relay to you a frank, soldier-to-soldier message about our personal experience while there-something which politicians who sent you there have not told you and something which you have not read or seen in the anti-Serb media.

  In 1944, the members of our committee were flying bombing missions out of Italy over Southern Europe. During that time over 500 of us were shot down over enemy-occupied Yugoslavia and saved from certain death by the Serbian people. Ours was the greatest rescue of American lives from behind enemy lines in history but has been kept under wraps all these years because of pressure from foreign sources. [Emphasis added]

  While we were there, those of us who were wounded were given whatever medical supplies they had even at the deprivation of their own troops. If there was one piece of bread in the house, or one egg, it went to the American airmen while the Serb went hungry.

  If there was one bed or one blanket, it went to us while the Serb slept on the bare ground. No risk of sacrifice was too great to insure our safety and well being. One experience which is forever seared in my memory is the time a village with 200 women and children was burned to the ground by the Germans because the Serbs would not tell them where they were hiding us. To this day, I can smell the terrible stench of their burning flesh. One does not forget such things.

  The most incredible part of our rescue was that before each mission, our bomber crews were briefed by the highest levels of American intelligence that if shot down over Yugoslavia, we were to stay away from the Serbian people as they were collaborating with the Germans and "cutting off the ears of American airmen" before turning them over. Only after we were shot down did we find out the amazing thoroughness with which the truth about the Serbs was being distorted. [Emphasis added]

  Further compounding this deception is the fact that while the Serbs were our allies in WWII, Croatians and Muslims (who we are favoring today) were allies of the Nazis, shooting at us and responsible for killing many of our fellow American fliers. In view of the lies we were told about the Serbs during World War II, we could not help but wonder if our foreign policy there today is the same anti-Serb bias we encountered 52 years ago.

  Could our career diplomats sacrifice former friends and reward former enemies in the name of political expediency? Could it be because in the world community there are over one billion Muslims and only 9 million Serbian Orthodox Christians with the same proportionate power in the global economy? Could it be because the Serbs have no oil wells and no unlimited oil money?

  Could it be because the Croatians and Muslims outspend the Serbs 50 to one on lobbyists, media firms and campaign contributions? Could this be why, "atrocities" are manufactured to make the Serbs look bad while gaining sympathy for their opponents? Could this be why the Serbs are branded "aggressors" in land they have lived on for over 600 years?

  Could our policy have something to do with the fact there are 540 members of Congress, none of whom are Orthodox Christians? Could the State Department’s bitter bias, against General Draza Mihailovich, the anti-Communist guerrilla leader who saved us, be based on the fact he was a Serb?

  Could these be the reasons the State Department has covered up the truth of our rescue all these years and opposed our petition to express gratitude for saving over 500 American lives (a petition which is supported by the 8 million veterans of the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the Air Force Association and which has been approved by the United States Senate.)?

  Could it be these are the reasons the Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee has also denied our petition by saying to us here are "ethnic groups in Yugoslavia" who oppose it?

  Are we mad? You can bet your next month’s paycheck that we are mad! We did not leave our families, risk our lives and watch our buddies get their arms, legs and heads blown off so that "ethnic groups in Yugoslavia" could tell us what we could or could not do in our own country.

  Now that the spring thaw has set in, temperatures and tempers will start to rise in the volatile area you now find yourselves. All we ask is that in your dealings with the local people you be made aware of the eyewitness experience of your fellow comrades-in-arms. By speaking out now we have nothing to gain except a burning moral passion to tell the truth, a sworn duty to protect our national honor, a patriotic desire to express heart felt gratitude to those on foreign soil who save American lives while they are fighting in defense of our glorious country.

  Now that you have been sent to foreign soil and asked to risk your lives we feel you should know the truth and not be "suckered in" by the rhetoric of highly paid public relations firms, foreign lobbyists and self-serving politicians who know absolutely nothing of the region’s history.

  We might also add that had it not been for the Serbian people, Air Force General Donald J. Smith, our chairman and one our rescued airmen, would not have survived the war and been able to dedicate 40 years of honorable service to his country.

  Had it not been for the Serbian people, technical Sgt. Curtis "Bud" Diles, another of our airmen, would not be alive today in Dayton, Ohio, enjoying retirement with his four children and 12 grandchildren.

  There are hundreds of us with stories just like those. Some of the greatest testimony to the many sacrifices made on our behalf us the many thousands of American children who are alive today solely because the Serbian people saved over 500 of their grandfathers during World War II. Some of them could very well be serving with you today in Bosnia.

  I was one of three rescued American airmen who returned last year to the former Yugoslavia to commemorate the 50th anniversary of victory in Europe with the people who saved us and to visit the cow pasture that served as a landing strip from which we were rescued. The most moving experience of our sentimental trip was being cheered by over 50,000 Serbs who gathered at a mountain top to welcome us and who kept chanting "USA, USA".

  As American military men, we have a proud tradition of "duty, honor and country" to uphold and a fierce sense of loyalty to those with whom we fought side by side in combat. We never forget their kindness nor do we return their battlefield sacrifices for us by bombing their women and children. The Serbian people helped us when we were desperate and in trouble. Now that the situation is reversed we can do no less.

  Please keep these untarnished truths in mind as you now serve our country and all it stands for, and may God bless you all as we pray for your safe return.

  This war will not last long. If for no other reason, it appears the US Forces are already running low on missiles. And, Clinton’s blustering threats of "escorting the Albanian Kosovars back to their home" is silliness.

  So far Clinton’s war has failed to even find ONE of Milosevic’s mobile units to shoot at. How does he plan on personally escort back the reported 1,000,000 Albanians his spokespersons claim have fled the country? The Serbs tied up 10 divisions of Hitler’s Crack troops-even after they lost the war.

  If he continues the kind of bombing he conducted last couple of nights, he is going to lose the humanitarian war on CNN. -Pictures of mothers and newborn premature babies being evacuated from the hospital 100 yards from the Interior Ministry’s spectacular blaze, a father on the street being interviewed saying it was "easy for Clinton to drop bombs on the children from the sky-but we will see what kind of man he is when he comes to our soil" or the flames from a residential area hit in last night’s bombing raids, are far more dramatic and horrifying than watching Albanian refugees who are riding trains to the border and walking across.

  Pictures of bombs on civilian targets. So far this week, over 1000 people are reported to have died so far in the bombing raids. That is a far higher death toll than Christiane Amanpour has been able to muster up in her drive to sell the Albanian side to a jaded, suspicious American public.

  The world is seeing the results of the bombs. The effort to portray the Serbs, as US News and World Report does in its April 12, 1999, issue on "Balkan Hell" as crazed killers is largely verbal so far.

  Stories of "summary executions," US News and World Report noted, were hard to "prove" but are "quite credible given the Serbs’ vicious record. These stories are being challenged by those, such as Col. Felman, USAF Ret., who have had personal experiences with the Serbs.

  We are in a whole new kind of warfare, folks, and it appears that Milosevic has pretty much won it. It already sounds like the Clinton administration is trying to figure out who it can blame for the debacle.

  Redacted for inclusion on this site. Contact information: Richard L. Felman Major USAF (Ret), President National Committee of American Airmen Rescued by General Mlhailovich, Inc. PO Box 17478 Tuscon, Arizona 85731

  If you would like to check the article, do a search on Google. it is about midway down the first page.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 1:08 pm
  It is very commendable that you have NEVER been wrong about anything David. You ALWAYS know what is right??? Trouble is, you ARE wrong in your narrow mindedness.

  I used to be a Catholic. They taught that we should not read the Bible, because we hadn't the ability to interpret it. That should be left to the clergy.

  Trouble is, I love to read. I actually felt like I was sinning to a certain extent, but I read it, several times.

  I am no longer a Catholic, but I would NEVER condemn any Catholic for what they believe, simply because they don't have the same reference points that I have.

  Likewise, I am not going to condemn ALL members of the Military of any nation as 'sheep' or 'paid killers', simply because I have never had the same experiences they have. NEITHER have you! Judge not lest ye be Judged.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 1:23 pm
  Pasha, I would like to believe I would react as the Serbian people reacted to Sgt. Stone, but of course i don't know how i would react until/unless i am in that situation. Andy, Thank you for the link. I got in a debate on the Denver post about the things Bush and the media have been saying all along in Iraq. They say "Iraq fired Scuds". EVERYBODY pays attention. Few paid attention when they corrected the statement.

  I had a whole list of the things they said during Kosovo. If I can find it, I will post it. apparently, May and company have retained only the original reports. At least one would think they are stuck on "Hundreds of Thousands of bodies in mass graves".

  That right these should have set Milosevic free. They have only found 2,134 bodies and do NOT even know which ethnic group those bodies belong to. They could very well be Serbs.

  Not to mention that most experts are agreed that NATOs bombing killed well over 2,000 people.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 1:43 pm
  
  Trouble in - Blair’s - Paradise

  Extracts from INET Kosovo news reports over eight recent days:

  Friday 02 May 2003

  Head of the Kosovo-Metohija coordination centre Nebojsa Covic said that Serbian authorities had 'obtained certain documents indicating that Albanian lobbyists have offered $2.5 billion to Serbia in order to recognize Kosovo independence.'

  UN Resolution 1244 states that the aggressor powers, Nato, agreed that the province of Kosovo would remain Serbian sovereign territory. Blair and his fellow war criminals, desperate for an excuse to stop their misguided slaughter of innocent Serbian civilians causing them enormous embarrassment and possible war crimes charges, clearly signed this agreement in bad faith. The KLA tried murder now its bribery and corruption - what a way to conduct international affairs? Incidentally is it not Blair’s position that UN agreements must be obeyed on pain of death or is it a case of ‘please yourself except for Iraq’: Just what is it that Blair believes in?

  Thursday 01 May 2003

  Michael Steiner, UNMIK chief, said that he was 'very disappointed' by the reaction of the Kosovo-Metohija Coordinating Center. The Center objected to re-registration of vehicles belonging to citizens of Serbia-Montenegro living in Kosovo. Steiner apparently said: 'They are not all in their heads,' claims Simon Haselock, Steiner's spokesman. Haselock explained that re-registration of Kosovo vehicles was agreed upon last August, even though the official document had never been signed because Nebojsa Covic, the Center's chief opposed it.

  The arrogance of occupying powers: I suppose, Herr Steiner, that Germans too would be: ‘They are not all in their heads’ if they objected to having to re-register their cars with a government forced upon them - and laced with terrorist killers - instead of the legitimate sovereign authorities?

  Wednesday 30 April 2003

  After an anonymous warning, KFOR's British demining team yesterday found a car bomb in the vicinity of the main telecommunications transmitter on Vnesta Hill in Pristina. KFOR troops succeeded in taking the car away from the transmitter, preventing any damage or interruption in radio and TV programmes. Serbs and other minorities in Kosovo are prisoners in their own houses, Amnesty International said in its latest report on human and minority rights in Serbia's southern province, which was handed out to reporters in Brussels yesterday. The report said that the rights of Serbs and other minorities in Kosovo were being drastically violated even four years after the arrival of the United Nations and NATO in the province and that their lives were constantly in danger.

  Kosovo’s minority populations still subjected to terror attacks four years into Nato’s occupation. This is a measure of the effectiveness of Blair’s war on global terror - he talks a good war!

  Tuesday 29 April 2003

  'The Prosecution of the Hague tribunal is carrying out between 35 and 40 investigations. About ten investigations refer to Serbs, while the remaining indictments refer to others and I believe that Kosovo Albanians are among them,' said Goran Svilanovic, Serbia and Montenegro Foreign Minister.

  Up to 25 Kosovo Albanians being investigated by the Hague prosecutors we are asked to believe. We’ve heard it all before, over and over again, during the past four years. Who do they think they are kidding? Between three and four thousand murdered by the KLA during their campaign of terror in Kosovo and not one indictment of the Leadership in a period of four years. Is this trial fair: do pigs fly?

  Monday 28 April 2003

  Bad situation in the South of Serbia, including the arrests of terrorists from disbanded Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvedja Liberation Army and registered activities of ethnic Albanian extremist who have formed a new terrorist organization called Albanian National Army (ANA) are causing grave concern among Serbs living in Kosovsko Pomoravlje. It is said that inhabitants of Gnjlane, Kamenica and nearby villages were frightened to travel to Central Serbia because Albanian extremists were threatening them with murder and abduction. Signs reading 'Down with UNMIK' and 'Long Live Albanian National Army' that appeared in Gnjilane and Kosovska Kamenica two nights ago have struck fear in the hearts of Serbs.

  Blair’s support for the KLA also threatens security in Serbia proper through its hybrid the ANA: yet more terror, abduction and murder.

  Sunday 27 April 2003

  Socialist People's Party (SNP) spokesman Dragan Koprivica today qualified as 'unacceptable' the proposal of leader of the Democratic League of ethnic Albanians in Montenegro, Fergat Dinosha, that that in future, the republic parliament be a two-house one, i.e. that it also included a national minorities' house which would have a right to veto. He said that the introduction of a minority veto would open a possibility for blocking the work of the Montenegrin parliament.

  Montenegro next?

  Saturday 26 April 2003

  Serbian deputy premier Nebojsa Covic said that UNMIK chief Michael Steiner will be an accomplice in organized crime in Kosovo-Metohija if he does not hand over to Serbia Shefchet Musliu, leader of the disbanded Liberation Army of Presevo, Bujanovac and Medvedja.

  Nato harbours terrorists in Kosovo. Is this trial fair: what more do you need to know?

  Friday 25 April 2003

  UNMIK judicial organs in Kosovo-Metohija brought criminal charges against president of the Serbian National Council (SNV) of Northern Kosovo-Metohija Milan Ivanovic and leader of SNV of Northern Kosovska Mitrovica Nebojsa Jovic. They are charged of participating in riots in Northern Kosovska Mitrovica on April 2002.

  Nato’s kangaroo courts: Those protesting about being terrorised, abducted and murdered by Nato’s protégés are hounded while the killers get protection and free reign. This is justice?

  Thursday 24 April 2003

  Several thousand works of literature have been thrown out of the Gnjilane city library in the province of Kosovo. The books, all printed in the Serbian language, were thrown into rubbish bins before being taken to the city dump by local refuse collectors. Serb sources from Kosovo Pomoravlje reporting the incident to the local Gnjilane police department. Sources said that the works include some rare and valuable Serbian history and literature books.

  Dear oh dear oh dear! This is what the Nazi’s did with Jewish literature? And let us not forget the hundred and more destroyed Christian churches in Kosovo. As Blair, a principal architect of Serbia’s downfall, destruction of its property and murder of its citizens in support of KLA terror, celebrates his fiftieth birthday tomorrow let us not forget that these ‘book burners’ are his friends: ‘mad Ambition’s gory hand’. Tomorrow many ‘servile wretches’ will fawn upon this self styled paragon of virtue who ‘spreads woe, want and murder o’er many lands’ forget his fancy moralistic talk and the innocent looks: facts speak louder than words.

  As, we are told, Campbell his principal spin doctor has to restrain Blair from trading on his Christian ‘beliefs’ - his God - for political ends; ponder some more words from Scotland’s finest poet, Robert Burns to unmask this intended sham:

  But deep this truth impress’d my mind -
  Thro’ all His works abroad,
  The heart benevolent and kind
  The most resembles God.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 2:50 pm
  Rebecka,

  Sadly, Richard L. Felman died a few years ago. My father had some correspondence with him and Felman had remained a staunch supporter of Serbs right up until his death, even making speaches opposing the NATO attack Serbia.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 2:52 pm
  D Jovanovic,

  I think that Serbs forgive all the time. Maybe too easily...

  We forgive, but we don't forget.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 3:15 pm
  

  For the unconvinced, disregard good old Hanna Araendt and read it form the pen of an accomplished Zionist, Edwin Black The Transfer Agreement or in Hebrew Ha'avarah and see how nationalism based on blood and religion makes very strange bed fellows.
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 10:49 pm
  Gogol, I'm not too sure what you are getting at. Do you think it was wrong for the them to try to save 50,000 people? I also don't see where nationalism based on blood and religion enter into the equation, beyond the fact that they were to be murdered for having any percentage of Jewish blood. Even jews who convertied to Christianity were murdered.

  I mentioned a book, "The Haj", before. It is a pretty good look at what happened in the new State of Israel from an Arab viewpoint. Seems, most Arabs were so Nationalistic that they decided to hit the road, rather than live in a state of Israel.

  Most Arabs sold, what was nearly worthless from neglect. It was only after the new owners made it a Paradise that they decided they wanted it back.

  Arafat saw a chance for power. He is definately NOT a Palestinian so what is his beef? Why not get one of the Arab countries to give up some of their surplus land for a State for the so-called Palestinians? Most of them are people that were kicked out of Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan at any rate. Mainly because they caused so much trouble in those three countries that they were no longer welcome.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Monday May 05, 2003 at 11:01 pm
  Anna, Yes, I know. :( One of the things I was trying to get across is that even educated people like Major Feldman and his fellow Airmen, were fooled by the powers that be.

  I saw an interview with a couple of the others and they said when they ran into the Serbs, they thought they were dead men.

  I have always thought what a great movie could be made from the life of General Mlhailovich. What was the reason the US wanted Tito in power???
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 12:13 am
  If I were one of the judges of Milosevi`s trial, I would make a death penalty because of the horrible things he has done in these three countries.
  
  Vahideh Kh
  Montreal
  Canada

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 12:43 am
  
  DALEK #2:

  "Exterminate! Exterminate!"
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 1:31 am
  Vahideh Kh, You haven't been following the Trial?

  Let's put it this way. Would YOU like to be convicted in such a farce???? Sometimes when you wish something on someone else, it comes back to haunt you. maybe you could enlighten me on just what it is you think he has done?

  So far all that has been proven is that the Hague had/has no intention looking for Justice. If they were, the Prosecuters and Judges would be in Prison.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 1:49 am
  
  Fr. Sava, Serbian Orthodox Christian Church

  “While the International Court in The Hague is prosecuting those who have been indicted for committing crimes against Kosovo Albanian civilians, no one yet has assumed responsibility for at least 2,000 civilian victims of the NATO bombing campaign.

  As well, no one has been brought to justice for the 847 non-Albanian civilians killed and 1,154 kidnapped after the arrival of NATO-led peacekeepers to Kosovo and Metohija and the beginning of the UN Mission. Are these not crimes? If they are not, who in the world can justify the systematic violence where almost 2,000 innocent civilians perished in the time of peace and how? Today we also remember these innocent victims and pray for their eternal peace.” Editorial to commemorate the fourth anniversary of Nato’s atrocities.

  To these figures we must add those of the minorities abducted and murdered during Nato’s bombardment plus the more than one thousand loyal Kosovars murdered by the KLA according Bujar Bukoshi, a former Albanian ‘Prime Minister’ of Kosovo. This puts the figure for KLA/Nato victims in excess of 5,000: Not to mention the thousands more injured. The military victims are not included.

  See also link to ‘Post-war suffering’ at this site
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 2:15 am
  Rebecka,

  As I understand it, it was Churchill who was fooled initially by a "fellow traveller," a secret comunist in the foreign service during WWII, who wanted to see Tito in power rather than Mihailovic. This man was sending messages to Churchill, or at any rate to the British forces, that Mihailovic was this and that (a collaborator, or whatever, etc.) and that the only hope of the allies in Yugoslavia was Tito. Supposedly Churchill fell for it and later, much later when he himself acknowledged it was too late to do anything about it, he regretted supporting Tito over Mihailovic. This is, I believe, all described in a book (now out of print) by a British military officer. The book was called "The Rape of the Serbs." The author has since died, and I can't remember his name... MIchael something, I think.

  This does remind me of my father's one and only visit to London when I was living there and how he was revulsed by the statues of Churchill. I didn't understand why until later -- the reason is that my dad was a staunch supporter of Mihailovic and he knew Churchill's role in Mihailovic's downfall. I don't know how much the Americans had to do with it.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 2:43 am
  Vlad the Impaler:

  When someone "comes in from the cold", so to speak, and eventually decides to contribute, perhaps, as I did after following a forum for a while, then I think it's more usual to come into a warmer place.

  More so, I would have thought, for someone living in Canada.

  I'm sure you can find such a place. Don't bother letting me know if you do.

  ____________________

  Possible Ustashe Death-Threat?:

  http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0305a&L=zamir-chat-list&F=&S=&P=550

  ____________________

  BTW, Rebecka, if the WW II Zionists really did want, laudably, but it'd probably be a first, to save 50,000 Jewish lives, perhaps it would have been better to pick somewhere else, not already occupied, and with plenty of space. Texas comes to mind. Would have no doubt jumped the average IQ of that place up significantly too.
  
  Dennis Revell
  USA

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:03 am
  

  Anna P

  You're probably referring to Michael Lees, a former British SOE officer attached to Mihajovic's headquarters during WW2. A remarkable gentleman(in every sense of the word!) by any standards.

  There exists a little known (at this date) short propaganda film made in the early 1940s in America which refers to Mihajlovic's and the Chetnik movement's antifascist actions. I think it was titled "The Serbian Robin Hood" if I remember correctly. It was to serve as an example of Serbian bravery and resistance to the Nazis and was meant to inspire the American population into an anti-Nazi frame of mind. The film was quickly suppressed after the Allies took Tito on board and the after the American public was mesmerised and inspired by the Jewish Holocaust story.
  
  David
  Australia

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:26 am
  

  East is East and West is West and They Will Never Meet

  
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:27 am
  
  
  G C
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:31 am
  

  Fitzroy Maclean, another British Army chap was also an envoy of Churchill but to the partisans and I find his book about Tito and the anti fascist movement in Yugoslavia very interesting.
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:52 am
  Not very surprising news:

  UNMIK calls off foreign troop training | 12:25 | SRNA

  PRISTINA -- Tuesday - The United Nations Mission in Kosovo has dropped programs to train Kosovo Protection Corps members outside the province after it was established that two members had been involved in mining the Kosovo Polje-Lesak railway line.

  UNMIK has financed the training of corps members in Germany, Turkey, South Africa and Albania since the beginning of last year.

  Two members of the Kosovo Protection Corps were killed while attempting to blow up the railway bridge. Both were also members of the Albanian National Army.

  Kosovo governor Michael Steiner has branded the Albanian National Army a terrorist organisation.

  The Albanian National Army consists largely of former members of the outlawed Kosovo Liberation Army, as does the Kosovo Protection Corps.
  
  Michael Thomas
  London
  UK

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 8:01 am
  Oh well. On past form Steiner has only a year to wait before he re-characterises the ANA as a democracy and civil-rights loving freedom movement.

  Or is it just the Americans who do that?
  
  Dennis Revell
  USA

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 8:22 am
  

  [...] the pro-Western government of Zoran Djindjic was itself deeply enmeshed with extremely serious criminals in Serbia, forces who inter alia were used to overthrow Miloševic on 5th October 2000. Whether Djindjic’s assassination was simply the result of a falling-out among the thieves in Belgrade, or whether he was deliberately eliminated by the West, cannot be ascertained with certainty. What is also certain is that the continuing control of the Balkans must be extremely important for the US Secretary of State to make a special trip to Belgrade in the middle of the war against Iraq. [...]

  
  
  Dusom Sarajlija
  USA

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 9:09 am
  Whether former Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic is "getting a fair trial" in the ICTY at The Hague I do not know; but it does not appear to be the case. Concerning in particular the "Kosovo part" of the trial, which I believe was finally adjourned on September 11th, 2002 (or some eight months ago!) I have been asking this forum (on Friday May 02, 2003 at 12:49 pm), to kindly tell me "untill when"? For one thing: Is it not true, that mr. Milosevic, who has been successfully cross-examining a series of witnesses for the prosecution, has not yet been allowed to bring in his own witnesses? Could someone kindly give (me) a brief account of what is next in this "Kosovo part" of the trial, and/or refer me to some credible source of information?
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 9:31 am
  I saw the testimony of secret witness "B-1461" today.

  Mr. B-1461 came and testified that he had been taken prisoner by paramilitaries and had sustained and witnessed all manner of horrific abuses in their prison camp.

  Apparently the people who were carrying out the abuses against him were citizens of Serbia. When the Serbian authorities found out about the torture and the killings, these people who did that were put on trial in Serbia and charged with war crimes.

  I have to wonder what the prosecutor thought that the point of B-1461 was. Nobody disputes that there were abuses and nobody disputes that the perpetrators were arrested by the authorities of Serbia.

  If anything this helps Milosevic's case because it demonstrates that the Government of Serbia, under Milosevic, was actively discouraging war crimes by arresting war criminals.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 10:18 am
  Rebecka, books like “The Haj” by Leon Uris are historical novels and not based on a great deal of historical evidence. Leon Uris a Jewish nationalist writes to entertain not to inform. The first Leon Uris book that I read was “Mila 18”, which was followed by “Battle Cry”,” Exodus”, “Armageddon”, “Trinity”. Leon Uris is a historical fiction writer. OK reading if you want to relax by the pool and get a suntan but please don’t quote it as historical evidence.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops BC
  Canada

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 11:22 am
  Walter, "The Haj", is BASED on History. Uris tells the story from the perspective of Arabs, who were being ordered by the other Arab Governments to get out of there!

  Maybe you would go to Amazon.com or one of the other book dealers on the Net and read some of the Reviews before you dismiss it.

  The Uris Books are generally based on quite a bit of Historical evidence. You aren't likely to see any blow by blow accounts in ANY History, and none that isn't shaded to one side or the other.

  Josephus comes to mind. Kind of like he was the first "IN"bed Reporter of history. I will trust Leon Uris for facts before any "embedded" Reporter. (Strange that they didn't realize how easily their term could be made more factual.)

  Anna, I read a lot on Mihajlovic. It was probably at Srpska Mreza. I find it really strange that Roosevelt and Churchill would take the word of a known Communist over that of Mihajlovic who definately was not.

  Both men had started their rants on communism long before WWII was over. All in the higher echelons of both the US and British Governments were saying the Communists were our next enemy.

  I remember how they were praising Tito as, "Not a regular Communist", from about '43 on. There had to be some reason WHY they wanted Tito in power.

  The sources I have read state that Tito had Mihajlovic executed with the full approval of the US and Britian. Yet before this, both Governments had had word of the rescue of the Airmen???

  Dennis, Texas, or that other country, the US..... would not take the Jews. They had been PROMISED a homeland in what is now Israel, by the British.

  Of course Arab oil caused Britian to renege on their promise. So, the British chose to side with those who had fought with the Nazis and against the Jewish who had fought with the Allies.

  As a matter of fact, Britian did their level best to stir up trouble between the Arabs and Jews from the early 20's on. Wonder why?
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 11:53 am
  Here are a couple of great places to get more info on Mihajlovich.

  http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/pilots-hearing.html

  http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/antiFascists.html

  Excerpts from the second link:Both Chetniks under Mihailovic and the Communist-dominated Partisans, who were led by Tito, resisted the occupying German forces. The conflict between the two Yugoslav groups deepened, however. By the end of WW II, and largely as a result of greater Allied assistance, Tito and the Partisans prevailed. Mihailovic went into hiding. He was captured on March 13, 1946, and charged with treason and collaboration with the Germans. The Yugoslav government under Tito denied the testimonies of several Allied officers who had worked with or had been rescued by Mihailovic. He was sentenced to death and was executed. Despite the allegations of the Tito government, a U.S. commission of inquiry fully EXONORATED Mihaijlovic, and in 1948 U.S., President Harry S. Truman AWARDED HIM THE LEGION OF MERIT.

  Time, May 25, 1942, pages 23, 24 (excerpts, quote:)

  ...He watches from his mountain walls, and like a thunderbolt he falls. These words, written for an eagle, today are far better fit for one of THE MOST AMAZING COMMANDERS OF WORLD WAR II. He is Yugoslavia's Draja Mihailovich. Ever since Adolf Hitler vaingloriously announced a year ago that he had conquered Yugoslavia, Draja Mihailovic and his 150,000 guerrillas in the mountains south-west of Belgrade have flung the lie in Hitler's teeth. IT HAS BEEN PROBABLY THE GREATEST GUERRILLA OPERATION IN HISTORY... (A long list of achievements follows... and then...)

  Hitler had hardly turned his back on Yugoslavia when the country erupted in a spontaneous revolt... THE CHETNIKS WERE THE FIRST - and for a short while ONLY - ORGANIZED GUERRILLA FORCE TO TAKE FIELD.

  Mihailovich and his men had been inflamed by Hitler's brutality toward the Yugoslavs and particularly toward the ... Serbs. Immediately after occupying Yugoslavia, the Germans had deported 200,000 prisoners of war - all of them Serbs. And now, thousands upon thousands of Serbs were being massacred by Germany's puppet regimes, and thousands more were executed by the Germans in reprisal for German troops killed by guerrillas.

  Mihajlovich decided to build up and conserve the Chetniks and to undertake only small, low-risk operations that would harass Germans without provoking massive counterattacks or terrible reprisals against the civilian population. He would not mount his full-scale uprising until the German forces had been so weakened by attrition that the Chetniks, with assistance from the Allies, could throw out the conquerors. This cautious strategy coincided with broadcasts that were made that summer by the government-in-exile in London, which called the present uprising premature and urged all Yugoslavs to bear their ordeal quietly until Allied help could arrive...

  ...The Communists were late in joining the resistance because (their leader) Tito had had orders to shun the War as a family feud between those imperialist nations Germany and Great Britain. But all that changed in June 1941, when Germany violated the non-aggression pact it had signed with the Soviet Union two years before and invaded Russia. It immediately became Tito's Communist duty to attack the German occupation with vigor, thereby diverting German troops from the Russian front and denying Germany raw materials from the Balkans. Unlike Mihajlovich, Tito was prepared to suffer heavy losses to achieve his ends.

  Since srpska-mreza gives the source of all the stories on it's site, I consider it very reliable.
  
  Rebecka Justice
  Portland
  OR

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 12:29 pm
  

  Mihajlovic was England's hope for a non communist post war Yugoslavia hence he was played against Tito. In the process Mihajlovic ended up too cozy with the Nazis. You don't have to be a communist in order to fight fascism but apparently it is OK to be a fascist to fight communism. This was the undercurrent of the the whole fight during WW 2 fascism versus communism and the Brit and the Yanks did everything they could to promote that fight despite the high cost in innocent lives. No wonder Mihajlovic was given a medal by the Yanks, he was their man more useful dead than alive.

  The Likud party in power today traces back to the most ferocious Zionism, the same party than in 1933 with the ascendency of Hitler to power found the opportunity they were looking for. Hitler anti-Semitism will move the Jews of Germany to Palestine since it was their assimilation which had to be destroyed and told to be a Jew above anything else or perish. Zionism and Nazism agreed on one thing: Jews had not place in Germany.

  History and fiction don't mix well, unless you like myths and for that not much effort in finding the truth is needed. Ask Carla del Ponte.
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 1:50 pm
  Godfred,
  We are still in the prosecution witness phase of the trial. This has 3 parts: Kosovo, Croatia and Bosnia, in that order. We are now in the last part, Bosnia, although occasional witnesses for Kosovo and Croatia still appear. The prosecution has been continuously asking for additional sessions to call more witnesses. It is not certain when the prosecution phase will end, but this willl likely be about 55 working sessions after the end of this month. Then, Milosevic will be calling defense witnesses and will be able to use roughly the same time previously used for prosecution witnesses, which will likely turn out to be about one and a half year. I believe that the defense witnesses will also come in 3 parts as the prosecution has. This info can be found at ICTY sites, links to which are provided here in this forum. It is, however, cumbersome to read the official ICTY site. It is much easier (and informative) to follow this forum for updates.
  
  Pythagoras Crotoniatis
  Greece

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 2:16 pm
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen: In the absence of our one time resident legal guru, Jari Nousiainen, this forum sadly lacks his legal expertise. However I will tell you what I believe about the timetable for Milosevic's trial.

  In the original schedule Milosevic's defence was due to start about this time but due to illness and the prosecutions requests to extend the period of their case the original timetable has been extended.

  I am not sure that the relevant authorities have yet decided on the termination date for the prosecutions case?

  If you look back in the archives you will find some contributors who claim to have knowledge of the trials course of events. Other than that I hope someone else can advise you or point you in the right direction.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 2:21 pm
  Rebecka, “Little Red Riding Hood” is based on historical myths about wolves. It is a fable no more and no less than Leon Uris’s novels. Uris is an ultra nationalist who writes books for entertainment. Credible historians do not accept his books as historical evidence and if a student of history used his books as a source of evidence on Arab-Israeli relations he or she would fail the paper.

  The job of Amazon.com is to sell books and of course they would review them favourably. Credible historians would not waste their time reviewing one of Uris’s books because they are NOT HISTORY they are FICTION. (Sorry for yelling)

  “Topaz”, I think, is the only book of Uris’s, which does not have a Jewish supper hero (a Frenchman in this case I think). All of his other books have the same plot. Uris is a master at using historical events to tell interesting stories. His motive is to sell books and the intended audience is leisure readers.

  I do not expect you to agree with me since you have obviously come to your own conclusion about “The Haj”. As for me, I dismiss it as fiction. Mind you, I did like reading most of his books, usually at bedtime.

  The evidence that you provide about Mihajlovich is very emotive and suspect. Yes Mihajlovich organized the first resistance to Hitler in Europe. Yes, many historians credit this resistance in the late start of “Barbarossa” and the inability of Hitler to capture Moscow before winter of 1941 but that was only one variable in the German failure on the Easter Front. Did the Chetniks collaborate with the Nazis? There is some evidence to indicate that some Chetnik units at Sutjeska attacked the partisans at the same time as the German and Ustasa forces were attacking them. For the most part the Chetniks, after the first month of war, attempted to protect the Serbian population from the Muslim and Ustase atrocities.

  Both the United States and Britain had advisors “imbedded” with Tito and Mihajlovich but it seems to me that Randolph Churchill and Fitzroy McLean, who were with Tito, did a better job in convincing the Brits to support Tito.

  Mihajlovich’s policy, in respect to the German army, was based on saving Serbian lives. After the German ultimatum that for every German soldier killed one hundred and fifty Serbians would be executed and for every German soldier wounded fifty would be executed Mihajlovich stopped his attacks against the Germans. The Kragujevac massacre was in retaliation for an ambush by the partisans on a German Army column. The Germans meant business.
  
  Walter Trkla
  Kamloops BC
  Canada

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 3:00 pm
  Gogol,

  Mihajlovic was never "cozy with the Nazis" and Walter is correct when he says that Mihajlovic refused to get into a position where many multiples of Serbs would be killed in retribution for the Cetniks killing a couple of Nazis. Mihajlovic was a true patriot in the best sense of word and cared about his PEOPLE and his country, which Tito did not.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 3:01 pm
  Rebecka,

  I don't know...I had the impression that the communist who "slipped" Tito to Churchill was secretly a communist. You say he was a known communist. Perhaps you're right, but then the whole thing is stranger still...
  
  Anna P
  California

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 3:07 pm
  David,

  Do you know where I can get a copy of Mike Lees book? Every now and then I am reminded about it, but then I don't find it to buy. Do you have a copy so you can give me the ISBN number?

  My uncle was Cetnik directly under Mihajlovic and was in charge of procuring food and supplies for his fighters, which he got from local peasants who were more than happy to oblige.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 3:31 pm
  

  As you please. I don't intent to get involved in a family affair.

  
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 4:29 pm
  P.S. The Cetniks paid for the food and supplies. The word "procured" might give the wrong connotation.
  
  Anna P
  California

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:18 pm
  

  A Bosnian Serb former officer has pleaded guilty to charges of persecution, a crime against humanity, in the massacre of thousands of Muslims in Srebrenica during the Bosnian war, the UN court announced.

  In return for his guilty plea and full cooperation, the prosecutor has agreed to drop the other charges against Momir Nikolic and ask for a prison sentence of 15 to 20 years.

  
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 7:24 pm
  ANOTHER REPORT

  The agreement recommended that he be sentenced to 20 years in prison, while his defense attorneys pressed for 10 years. His sentence will be decided after the other trials end.

  Nikolic "agrees to testify against the co-accused and in any other trials hearing or other proceedings before the tribunal," the agreement said.

  
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Tuesday May 06, 2003 at 11:26 pm
  For the last two days (Monday and Tuesday) the Prosecution brought forward two witnesses, who could've not been more different in everything, except that both were Muslims. The first one, Dzevad Gusic, was testifying in open court, without any protective measures, he was a local political activist of the SDA [Stranka Demokratske Akcije = Democratic Action Party, the Islamic party of Alija Izetbegovic], fought in Bosnian Muslim Army against the Bosnian Serbs and he testified to the events he was not even present at. His answers sounded false, his story was hectic and illogical, his body language suggested he was lying: his eyes just wouldn't focus onto any person who spoke to him, but instead he seemed to have spoken to the ceiling. The second one, B-1461, was a protected witness (distorted image, but unchanged voice), a simple peasant who had the misfortune to be captured and maltreated by some obviously sick persons. His story sounded coherent when it regarded his personal experience, his answers were quite precise and his voice seemed truthful.

  Yet, what both of these two witnesses had in common was the utter irrelevance of both their testimonies to the Prosecution's case.

  What relevance could possibly have a story of the Municipality of Bratunac take-over on 17 April 1992 by the local Serbs without a single bullet shot, as the witness himself repeated several times? How could he possibly know anything that happened over the next months and years there, when he left the town that very day at 5 p.m., as he also kept repeating like a parrot? Yet, he also kept parroting that the forces taking over Bratunac were 'forces from Serbia and the JNA' and that later on there was 'ethnic cleansing and killings'. None of that Gusic could confirm to have seen, and there was always somebody conveniently unidentified who 'told him' later on. And that was all that his 'testimony' consisted of. Of course, he spoke profusely about the intricate local politics, negotiations, Crisis Staffs. But, he became intensely vague when Milosevic asked him about his own and his relatives' role in inciting unrest and then in Muslim paramilitaries, arms procurement, training in CRO, ambushes against civilians and other civil-war activities. This was put into light finally by the amicus curiae Tapuskovic: our Gusalic did not leave Bratunac to escape a war zone, he simply relocated elsewhere throughout Bosnia to fight as a deputy commander of a 400-men unit. He might not readily answer the questions by Milosevic, but his CV was submitted as one of the three Prosecution's exhibits and everything was written there! In brief, a bit like that Albanian witness in the Kosovo part of the 'trial' who was the KLA commander in Racak: testifying about something which was a civil war that the witness himself fully participated in and trying to present his side as a victim.

  There were instances where Milosevic neatly slammed the witness, who was bragging about his high position of the President of the SDA Municipal Branch and who claimed he would have known of an order to block and attack the JNA retreating from Bosnia, if any such order existed. Milosevic then quoted that notorious order for war by the Izetbegovic Government, which had been used by the Defence in Stakic trial [see my post on 24 March 2003 at 12:40 a.m.]. It was the order issued to all the municipal police and Territorial Defence units, but Gusalic answered he knew nothing of it, because he already left his municipality on 17 April!

  The second such instance of proving Gusalic to be ridiculous was when Milosevic quoted from a book by a local Muslim historian, who openly confirmed practically all the unlawful, subversive Muslim activities prior and during the war in the Municipality of Bratunac, and in the preface the good Professor thanked, among others, our witness Gusic for being one of his 4 main sources helping shape the written effort. BTW, I have yet to notice any deterioration in Milosevic's level of detailed local info revealed by him during his cross-examination. Remember how it was 'explained' that his sources of info had dried out with all those arrests here. No sign of that yet.

  Unlike a false babe-in-the-wood Gusalic, B-1461 was a victim of that civil war and all that Andy wrote in his post about him is correct, so there's nothing more to be said (except that the Prosecutor Dermot Groome tried to dwell too much on the things military of which this witness could help only clumsily and often incorrectly, which gave Milosevic a chance to establish some facts unfavourable for the Prosecution). Amici renounced their right to question the witness at all, which they did only few times so far, when the irrelevance of a witness was total. It seems such witnesses unrelated to the 'case' are becoming the staple recently.

  The next one announced is again a coded, nameless somebody, with an added trick by the Prosecution of giving him the protected status only a day prior to his testimony, as Milosevic complained. I think it is done mainly to avoid his face to be seen while talking, since Nice predicted his story to be 'very powerful'. I cringe already.

  There were some administrative issues discussed as well. The 'court' will not work next week. A propaganda expert, the French Professor Renaud de la Brosse who penned the 97-page report on Serbian propaganda tactics (?!), was announced for the week after that. That should be amusing.
  
  Vera Martinovic
  Belgrade
  Yugoslavia