MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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• discussion archive

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 3:12 am
  

  And while you're at the above WSWS site check out the rather concise and pretty accurate analysis of the Hague shennanigans:

  http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/milo-j04.shtml

  
  
  David
  Oztralia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 4:46 am
  

  Hey Carla,

  Here's a little souvenir photo for you! Courtesy of the KLA or the Kosovo Protection Force.

  Please cc a copy to Tony, Bill, Madeleine, Gerhardt and the rest of the Club!

  No doubt justice has been done, so you won't need to do anything about it.

  WARNING!!! WARNING!!! Those who are squeamish should NOT go to the link!!!

  http://www.kosovo.com/kla_decapit.jpg
  
  David
  Oztralia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 5:53 am
  Ern Vincent,

  You will need some time to get it, ah?
  
  ivko rig
  USW

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 5:56 am
  
  David: More than a week ago the Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Zikovic appealed to the international community including UNMIK to have those identified as KLA terrorists in the photographs you refer to arrested. In any civilised community one would expect immediate arrests to be made. Instead at least one of the men is still serving in Kosovo’s police force the KPC which has been implicated in torture, murder, acts of terror such as planting bombs and attacks upon adjacent sovereign states. We may all draw the obvious conclusion about the sincerity of Blair and his fellow war criminals’ declarations of humanitarianism, truth and justice: History will not tolerate such blatant falsity and contradictions.

  The person most responsible for this situation, Carla del Ponte Chief Prosecutor of the ICTY, ignores the incontrovertible evidence presented by the photographs of KLA decapitations of Serb soldiers. At the same time she bemoans the ‘fact’ that the Serb government is withholding evidence, she imagines, of Serb war crimes. Nothing could demonstrate more her bias in selecting ‘evidence’ and thus the unjust conduct of this Chief Prosecutor if the ICTY.

  However del Ponte has been ignoring such evidence of the crimes of Blair’s friends in the KLA for more than four years as the following reports show:

  KLA terror in Kosovo by Michael Conachy 20 August 1999:

  In the town of Lipljan, KFOR officers reported that a male Serb was decapitated in the middle of the busy town market on July 9, between 11 am and 3 pm.

  Serb Holocaust: Genocide and Horror posted by 'Cossack' on Beograd.com between June 26 and July 9, 2000:

  After Nato entered Kosovo this entire Serb family was butchered, men were shot and decapitated. Women and children were raped and tortured. This ten-year-old girl (in the center of the URL accessed picture) was raped by 20 KLA animals, her genitalia were mutilated with a wooden pole then she was killed with an axe blow to the head. She went through hell before she died ... thanks to NATO.

  Old Serbs terror targets by Chris Bird of the Guardian in Podujevo, 23 August 1999:

  One of the victims, Marica Stamenkovic, was found by German peacekeepers to have been almost decapitated. The victims had ignored repeated warnings to leave issued by ethnic Albanians wearing the uniforms of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).

  Bin Laden: Blair’s ally in Kosovo by Srdja Trifkovic, 19 September 2001

  The mujahideen had first come to Bosnia in 1992 and numbered over 3,000 by the summer of 1995. They included volunteers from the Middle East, as well as deserters from the Turkish, Malaysian and French UNPROFOR units. They never took prisoners: wounded Serb soldiers were usually decapitated.

  They were terrorists in 1998 and now, because of politics, theyíre freedom fighters, a top U.S. drug official complained to the Washington Times in May 1999. By that time the NATO bombing was in full swing, however, and the mujahideen were once again American allies. According to the Washington Times, The reports said bin Laden’s organization, known as al-Qaeda, has both trained and financially supported the KLA. Many border crossings into Kosovo by foreign fighters also have been documented and include veterans of the militant group Islamic Jihad from Bosnia, Chechnya and Afghanistan. Many of the crossings originated in neighboring Albania and, according to the reports, included parties of up to 50 men.

  War crime against Serbs by Mary Mostert, September 24, 1999:

  Of course, a lot of those Albanians are in uniforms and have mortars and have killed hundreds of Serbs, including about 300 policemen - but we never talk about where members of the KLA who were killed in battle are buried. Nor do we read about a paralyzed old Serb woman, the last Serb left in her area, decapitated and mutilated. Whatever happens to Serbs, we are told by the Ralphs of this world, they deserved it.

  And so it goes on: report after report of heinous crimes committed by an Islamist KLA and ‘unrecognised’ by del Ponte: Some three thousand murders and a quarter of a million refugees. No evidence, no evidence, no evidence squawks Harridan del Ponte - except for Serb crimes! It is surely impossible to sustain this level of false denial and still retain any semblance of integrity in the modern world: Del Ponte may even have to answer eventually to the ICC for her dereliction of duty which is in effect condoning and thus enabling the continuing KLA crimes in Kosovo?

  Let’s not forget Nato’s decapitations:

  Most were far more horribly mutilated. Many people were decapitated or had arms, legs, hands and feet severed by American cluster bombs. Many people were burned alive by napalm and fuel-air bombs. At least 9000 more human beings were injured or severely maimed by these American weapons of mass destruction dropped by American/NATO pilots. Many of the victims are children, now crippled for life.

  Blair and del Ponte are just as guilty as those who perpetrated these wicked crimes: Blair for authorising the bombing and promoting the KLA and del Ponte for ignoring the evidence of KLA crimes against humanity.

  While Blair’s coalition forces bomb and shoot innocent civilians in Iraq with impunity in blind retaliation for attacks on their occupying forces only Serbs are tried for resisting true Islamic terrorists who murdered their security forces and civilians in Kosovo: Serbia’s own sovereign territory.

  Anglo/US forces are pretending to fight imaginary - at least initially - Islamic terror in Iraq while supporting actual Islamic terror in Kosovo: how can the bulk of Anglo/US citizens be so apathetic, so stupid or so gullible?

  All this is justice?
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 6:17 am
  Dan B I would pich Bush over Soros ANY TIME. At least you know what you are dealing with. May not be good but at least you know who he is.
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 6:44 am
  The SLOBODA and IVDSM-organized demonstrations for the release of President Milosevic and the abandonment of the ICTY held on 8 November, 2003 at the central Plein, and in front of the prison in Scheveningen as well as 'en route' between these two destinations in The Hague, Netherlands, drew more than 200 people, - whatever "the media" says.

  I counted their numbers, - twice!

  Please tell me which media were covering the event, Dan?
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  Denmark

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 7:06 am
  

  Peter Taylor

  The Mujaheedin are good at causing trouble in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya (under US govt patronage) and even in 9/11! Makes you wonder whether they are still on the US govt payroll doesn't it?

  Dubya doesn't seem too keen on getting UBL. He says he doesn't care where UBL is at all. Maybe he's in Kosovo or Albania getting things organised for Macedonia and Northern Greece to go the way of Kosovo (wouldn't want him caught or he might sing like a canary too). Another polygon for an assault on Europe and the EC which stands in the way of global US domination by the NY oligarchy.

  But who the hell are they going to blame for that? Slobo's in the Hague! Then again, maybe he's such an evil presence he could still be running things in the Balkans (like Lucky Luciano ran things from prison) or at the very least not doing enough to stop them (as David Owen would put it).

  Dakic Ana

  Bush or Soros? You drive a hard bargain. Same s*** different package! But I do agree with you, Soros just wants Bush not to give the game away so crudely and blatantly before it's too late to reverse.
  
  David
  Oztralia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 7:09 am
  David, at least he does not try to sell that human right crap. We love you and because we do we will bomb you. What is it - a humanitarian bombing?
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 8:18 am
  

  If Slobo is in the Hague because he wanted to create a Greater Serbia, then how come KLA are not in the Hague for wanting to create a Greater Albania.

  Carla, show me where Slobo pushed for a Greater Serbia! Nowhere!

  On the other hand even the schoolkids down here know that the KLA platform PUBLICLY pronounced their objective of a Greater Albania.

  So how come there are no KLA big wigs at the Hague?

  The real criminals were the KLA leaders (ask Interpol), conveniently joined and supported by NATO and the US sponsored ICTY. Talk about a Criminal Enterprise! People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Carla.
  
  David
  Oztralia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 9:25 am
  Michael Thomas,

  Thank you for the post.
  
  D. Jovanovic, physicist
  USA

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 9:39 am
  
  Compulsive obsessive behaviour by Partial del Ponte

  Information compiled by the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs and Serbian State Police based on reports by domestic and international committees of the Red Cross, family members, UN police and Hague tribunal investigators is given below:

  Since the deployment of peacekeeping forces in Kosovo and Metohija 1,192 Serbs and 593 members of other national communities have been murdered.

  The fate of 790 of the 1,303 persons kidnapped or abducted and tortured by Albanian extremists during the same period remains unknown.

  A total of 364 persons of the total number of persons kidnapped and missing managed to escape from captivity, and 150 bodies of those who have been murdered were recovered.

  During the same period, 1,289 persons sustained serious bodily injury, approximately 10 percent of whom died from their wounds.

  The subtotal of those murdered equals 1,192 + 593 + 790 = 2,575

  Adding the “more than one thousand” loyal Kosovars claimed murdered by the KLA according to Albanian politician Bujar Bukoshi we have a total in excess of 3,575 murdered in Kosovo by the KLA and its New Variant forms such as the KPC and ANA. If those who died of wounds are not included in the figures above the total is in excess of 3,705.

  Yet not one person has been indicted by del Ponte for the murders of Kosovo’s minority populations.

  Instead del Ponte and the west’s media is obsessed with Srebrenica. Some 4,500 bodies have been found in Kosovo. On the basis of the evidence above most being victims of the KLA or its New Variant forms. In Srebrenica a similar total number of bodies or body parts have been found.

  Del Ponte has stated she is not interested in the Kosovo bodies: the reason being obviously that the bodies are largely victims of the KLA and its New Variant forms: Nato’s allies. But she is obsessed with perpetuating the myths surrounding the Srebrenica massacre.

  When if ever will the world take notice of the more horrible Kosovo massacre which del Ponte and the west curiously ignore?
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 10:15 am
  Michael Thomas, ATV is not a NATO sponsored TV.
  
  Andy, We can watch Milosevic trial on state TV, it goes through B92, so I don't understand that Vera couldn't watch the trial while we could at the same time through B92.
  
  As for your question what do I think about Milosevic, I certainly support what he's doing at the Hague, but I also dislike him as a politician. What can you think about the man who one day calls a man a lunatic and the other supports him on presidential elections?
  
  Someone mentioned Vladimir Srebrov and RAM plan. It isn't possible that he could know about any plan in the 1980s since SDS exists since July 1991.
  
  kontraboavestajac, what is SDL?
  
  pantelija damjanovic
  Bosnia and Herzegovina

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 10:21 am
  Ivko, there was something you mentioned about sexual orientation which I would like to use as an opportunity to kindly ask you if you would be a pal to make an effort to arrange me a meeting with your mother, wife, or perhaps a sister, maybe daughter, it certainly makes no difference to me, I was never too picky (you know, picky ones don't make good fuckers - od biraca nema jebaca).
  
  Although I'm very busy I'm sure I could spare six or seven hours a day for a lovely lady like your mother, wife, sister, daughter or all of them together (why the hell not? at my age I can handle it, don't worry). You may not like the idea, but trust me man, THEY WON'T REGRET IT.
  
  So how about it, Ivkane, druze? You have to think what's the best for your family.
  
  By the way, Ivko, someone ought to tell you that Kafka's DER PROZES is not a court process, but a process of mind, it's a metaphore, you know transfered meaning, you should read the book again, OR if your brain isn't capable of processing that (which seems to be the case) I highly recomend a brain transplant, or a shit transplant since changing your "brain" for shit would be changing shit for shit.
  
  I must say I'm impressed how people like you are doing great cleaning restrooms in USA, I see you even managed to make enough money to buy a computer.
  
  P.S. - do send my love to your mother
  
  Pantelija Damjanovic
  sempre con tu madre
  Bosnia and Herzegovina

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 10:41 am
  "Fowl language I have no right to use ( no as bad as F... word). This is to show that we can all use it but should try not to. I am not ging to visit this subject again an also I can take this personaly like MP and stop visiting this site like many other did: Pera Bora, Yary, Andy, Vera - so seldom now. Let Ritas and 1 2 take over." Ana
  
  ri. t.
  Deutchland

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 11:32 am
  Bush or Soros. Thats not a choice is it? I would boycott an election with those names on it. Mind you when the son of a nazi wins calafornia it doesnt surprise me when Americans support Bush.

  Pantelija Damjanovic your post is very amusing, if a little rude. However participants should bear in mind when one of their number shouts that another is a POOF this is the response they can expect.

  R t u r 1 2 r u not?
  
  N Keller
  Aus

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 12:19 pm
  N. Keller

  Not even close.
  
  r. t.
  Deutchland

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 1:38 pm
  Pantelija,

  I did, and mother was delighted. Then she qouted Clint E. at his best: "There are two kinds of people my friend: those with loaded guns and those who dig", and added: "Whose gun is loaded?" I did not answer and brought my sister to the computer. She was not as happy as my mother, in fact she was as cool as a cucumber, and said: "The language of the Bosnian trenches". My wife hates Milosevic and does not want to know anything about this forum or anything connected with the theme. (One of her best friends told me she realised she was fooled. She is just embarassed to say so, which I understand.)

  And my daugter, my darling: "Does this idiot think that this shit in The Hague is "a court process"".

  P.S. My grandmother got pissed off you did not mention her.
  
  ivko rig
  USW

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 1:42 pm
  To Mr Curious

  We love cats. Cats love mice. We are afraid of mice. We have cats to kill mice. Mice do not kill anybody. Cats play with mice when they kill them. We play with cats afterwards.

  Now, read the previous passage once again and instead of "we", "cats", and "mice" read "people(s)", "the power to kill", and "the enemy" respectively.

  The difference is in the way cats kill the mice.
  
  ivko rig
  Lady Europa

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 3:34 pm
  Today at the Hague:

  http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg111203.htm
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 7:48 pm
  In the light of the absence of relevant comments about The Trial, I take it people are finding there's not much to comment on. So much for the Other Side's case being wrapped up by October 2003!

  May should just put an end to proceedings by the Other Side unless they can get more meaningful witnesses than we've had over the last week or so.

  What a waste of time! They're not contributing much evidence about anything. Let Slobo start the defence phase so we can see some REAL witnesses like Madeline, Tony, Gerhardt, Carla, Bill, Robin Cook and so on.

  Come on Mr May, enough of this nonsense and fairy tales about being "executed" and surviving with just a scratch between the index and middle fingers.

  Apart from that, most of the witnesses the other side is bringing are more in favour of Slobo's case than the other side's. Why not just let Slobo get on with his side of the case formally and spare the other side the huge embarrassment?
  
  David
  Oztralia

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 7:53 pm
  Thanks Andy for the reports. I always read your reports and www.cij.org It is amazing how they differ in opinions and the conclusions. Ms. Armatta only wants to find evidence for Milosevic's guilt. It is unbelievable.
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 8:04 pm
  Borisav Jovic, the former head of the SFRY presidency and a member of Slobodan Milosevic’s Socialist Party of Serbia, arrived in The Hague today to testify as a prosecution witness in the trial of the former Yugoslav president, B92 reports. B92 learnt from sources close to the tribunal that Jovic could take the stand at the beginning of next week. His book, “The last days of SFRY”, has been cited on several occasions during the trial of Milosevic. The author, Borislav Jovic, was president of Yugoslavia until just before the outbreak of the conflict in 1991, with battles between the former Yugoslav republics of Serbia and Croatia. He describes Milosevic as a leader who delights in court intrigue but makes all decisions himself. He reports conversations in which Milosevic insists there will be a war by Serbia against the other republics of Yugoslavia and says that as early as 1989 Milosevic had to be dissuaded from ordering the army to intervene in Slovenia. Addition: This potential witness was also under investigation by the prosecutor.

  Mr. Jovic stated last week that he is not going willingly, so it should be interesting to note if he will stick to his book. Jovic confirmed last week that he would appear as a prosecution witness, but not willingly.

  http://www.amber.ucsf.edu/homes/ross/public_html/bosnia_/milos2.txt
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 8:11 pm
  Something else on Jovic:

  Slobodan Milosevic's former sidekick Jovic, and Federal President of Yugoslavia from 1989 to 1991, claims in his memoirs that the plot between Milosevic and army leaders like Kadijevic to dismember Yugoslavia and bring all of the Serb-populated zones of Bosnia and Croatia into a Greater Serbia, had been hatched even before 1990, the year of multi-party elections in Croatia and BiH. He quotes specific conversations with Milosevic and Kadijevic and others to that effect. Students of the conspiracy theory of history will recall that the outlines of the ethnic cleansing programme were allegedly drawn up in a document variously entitled Operation Ram, Rama or Brana, during the nineteen-eighties, e.g. Vladimir Srebrov (interviews 1995,) articles in Delo (Jan.1993) and elsewhere. There is a detailed report on the Jovic memoirs in this week's "Feral Tribune" (Nov. 26), in which columnist Milan Gavrovic wonders why Jovic is choosing the post-Dayton weeks to try and launch his diaries. Gavrovic tells us that the book was withdrawn from sale almost as soon as it hit the book kiosks, but the "Feral" went to press too early to make the connection between Jovic's revelations and his expulsion from Milosevic's ruling party later in the week.

  On Kosovo, "High-ranking officials have spoken of the "Lebanonizing" of their country and have compared its troubles to the strife in Northern Ireland. Borislav Jovic, a member of the Serbian party's presidency, spoke in an interview of the prospect of "two Albanias, one north and one south, like divided Germany or Korea," and of "practically the breakup of Yugoslavia." He added: "Time is working against us."

  If Vera is still around, would you be able to tell us what the general sense is in Belgrade on his account and evidence? Any news?
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 9:15 pm
  What is your point again?
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 9:34 pm
  The individuals participating in this joint criminal enterprise included Slobodan MILOSEVIC, Radovan KARADZIC, Momcilo KRAJISNIK, Biljana PLAVSIC, General Ratko MLADIC, Borisav JOVIC, Branko KOSTIC, Veljko KADIJEVIC, Blagoje ADZIC, Milan MARTIC, Jovica STANISIC, Franko SIMATOVIC, also known as "Frenki," Radovan STOJICIC, also known as "Badza," Vojislav SESELJ, Zeljko RAZNATOVIC, also known as "Arkan," and other known and unknown participants.
  
  Just Churious
  

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 10:16 pm
  Yes, if you had read my post you would have noticed that Jovic is part of that idiotic allegation of a criminal enterprise and maybe you should not just quote from the indictment, but also tell us what your point is, which you still have REFUSED to answer. The last passage is talking about evidence which may benefit the accused, which is exculpatory evidence.

  An example of this can be found at http://sim.law.uu.nl/SIM/CaseLaw/tribunals.nsf/0/2547a911fb39a6e5c1256afd003ed600?OpenDocument
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 11:40 pm
  And now you are referring to the Seselj case.

  http://www.un.org/icty/Supplement/supp42-e/seselj.htm
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday November 12, 2003 at 11:59 pm
  Andy, I would like to refer you to this site, it seems that witnes B1399 has testified before. His account involved 5-6 men, who he says participated about in the killing. He had not much to say about Mladic, except that he treated them well. At the end of 1399, he stated that he knew of those men: Gojko Simic.

  This name has appeared in other statements. He was the commander of the anti-tank platoon of the Fourth Battalion, 1st Zvornik Brigade. According to my research, this witness B1399 appeared in the court on April 12, 2000 in the Krstic trial. In the end of his account in the Milosevic trial, the witness says he heard these names: "Gojko, Vojo, Risto" and that he knew Gojko Simic. Oddly, witness L from the Krstic trial says the same: "Gojko, Vojo, Risto" and

  START QUOTE:How was it that you were able to recognise Gojko's voice?

  A. Because I knew him for many years, and his voice was typical.. . knew him because we worked in the same company and we also come from the same municipality.END QUOTE

  This is in fact the same witness and his account was actually helpful.

  "I saw a group of seven or eight men who obviously did the shooting. They were standing not far away from the backhoe and were dressed in camouflage uniforms."

  I strongly recommend reading the cross examination of this witness. Judith Armatta also wrote an article on this, but it is rather biased as she like always, pushed for a limited cross examination. http://www.cij.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewReport&reportID=456&tribunalID=1&languageID=1

  
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 12:01 am
  Sorry, the second link:

  http://www.un.org/icty/transe33/000412ed.htm
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 9:58 am
  Dan B.,

  I read Ms. Armatta's report that you posted and I noticed that she put some details into her report that she could only have gotten directly from the witness statement. She certainly didn't hear many of those details in B-1399's live testimony. Obviously, since she has such quick access to their documents, there is some collusion between her and the prosecution.

  I also liked the way that she suggested limiting the cross examination as if it was her idea. Mr. Nice put forward almost exactly the same arguement, but I'm sure that he didn't mind her using it.

  And her speech about Milosevic being the only one on trial is nonsense. If Milosevic was on trial then Srebrenica wouldn't even be an issue. This trial is an assault on the Serbian people as a whole. Everybody who has watched even 5 minutes of this farce can see that. Who does she think she's fooling here?

  What makes her dangerous is the fact that CIJ represents itself as being some sort of unbiased observer. At least when I write about the "trial" I openly state my agenda.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 10:46 am
  -------------------------

  Via Workers World News Service

  Reprinted from the Nov. 13, 2003 issue of Workers World newspaper

  -------------------------

  THOUSANDS BATTLE POLICE IN BELGRADE: UNION WORKERS DEMAND GOV'T RESIGN

  By John Catalinotto

  Ten thousand workers struck the Sartid steel complex in Smederevo, Serbia, on Oct. 14. Two weeks later, on Oct. 29, the largest workers' demonstration since the overthrow of the government of Slobodan Milosevic in October 2000 marched on the Serb parliament in Belgrade. thousands of demonstrators demanded an end to privatization of state- owned companies and the resignation of the government.

  These two events, seemingly so far removed from here, impact directly on the lives of workers in the United States.

  To understand this, it helps to know that the U.S. Steel Corporation had bought Sartid a month before the strike. Access to this technologically advanced plant and its 10,000 skilled workers cost the giant U.S. corporation a mere $23 million, although Yugoslavia had invested $1 billion in it from 1990 to 2000. The steel complex produces specialized steel that has buyers on the world market.

  But the best part of it all--as the owners of U.S. Steel see it--is that these workers with more than 30 years experience receive the equivalent of $159 per month. According to an article by Spomenka Deretic in the Oct. 17 issue of the Serb journal Artel, their pay is 33 Serbian dinars per hour, or about 65 cents. The union is asking for 55 dinars, or about $1.10.

  Deretic's article compares the low wages of the workers at Sartid with e higher wages paid at a U.S. Steel plant in nearby Slovakia--where workers get $3.74 an hour--and with workers at U.S. Steel here, who are paid $15 to $25 per hour.

  The strike--at least the first phase of it--lasted until Oct. 23, when negotiations started. What worker in the U.S. would not see this strike as completely justified?

  Workers here might also be outraged that U.S. Steel could go into the Balkans or into Central Europe to find skilled, talented workers and force them to accept one-25th of what steel workers get here.

  But it is harder to see the connection between those low wages and the so-called humanitarian war the U.S. and its NATO allies waged against Yugoslavia over four years ago. Or how that war allowed the privatization and sell-off of major Yugoslav industries.

  Clinton's lie that this was a "humanitarian" war was as big as the Bush administration's tale that the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with oil.

  Before the 78-day bombing of Yugoslavia and the overthrow of the government led by the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) the following year, the steel plant was off-limits to U.S. capital. Replacing that government with parties and individuals tied to Western governments and banking interests has opened up Yugoslav industry to the world, that is, to the imperialist world, to the same monopolies that control economic life in the West.

  Before this happened, the Yugoslav state protected its workers against foreign capital. It also, in effect, protected U.S. workers from competition. At least no big U.S. corporation could just take over and make decisions to fire workers in Serbia, then a part of Yugoslavia. The same was true in Slovakia, which before the 1990s was part of socialist Czechoslovakia.

  The U.S. Steel purchase of Sartid is only one of 882 major purchases at low prices of Yugoslav industries by U.S. and West European capital. They paid $1.4 billion in total to the regime, of which about 50 percent is from U.S. corporations. Less than 25 percent of these funds went to social benefits for the 110,000 workers, who in the former Yugoslavia were considered owners of the industries.

  In most cases, the company taking over an industry savagely cut the work force. In some, they just stopped production entire ly, to destroy competition with their other factories around the world. But Sartid's highly developed electronically run machines, especially its technology for finishing the steel, and its work force, made it a going concern.

  WORKERS MARCH ON PARLIAMENT

  What also made Sartid remarkable is that the workers fought back. And they did so as workers in all of Serbia were preparing to battle the pro- NATO government.

  On Oct. 29-31 thousands of workers protested before the parliament in Bel grade, called out by the Alliance of Inde pendent Serbian Unions. Meanwhile Par li ament was debating a no-confidence vote in the government. Many of the workers, including the miners, were from unions that in October 2000 had supported the parties now in office.

  Police stopped buses filled with workers from arriving at the capital. On Oct. 30, they used teargas to break up the protest.

  After three years of a post-Milosevic, pro-capitalist, pro-NATO government that is even promising to send troops to Iraq and is helping turn the former Yugo slavia into a colony of the West, the organized workers in Yugoslavia are showing resistance.

  Meanwhile, Milosevic has been battling charges at The Hague, Netherlands, for alleged war crimes. He has represented himself before the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY), which was organized by the same NATO countries that launched a brutal 78- day bombing campaign of that country. Many accounts assert that Milosevic's determined political defense and sharp cross-examinations have stymied the ICTY prosecutors. NATO's court has failed to prove its case.

  In synch with the growing resistance inside Serbia, groups of emigrants from Yugoslavia plus European organizations that defend Milosevic will march on The Hague Nov. 8, demanding that the former Yugoslav president be released from prison and given two years to prepare his defense case.

  They say that by standing steadfastly against the ICTY, countering all the lies told about Serb people, and straightening out the facts about NATO's aggression against Yugoslavia, Milosevic has been doing a service, not only to Serbia and Yugoslavia, but to the workers of the world and anyone fighting U.S. imperialism.

  END -

  (Copyright Workers World Service: Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this document, but changing it is not allowed.

  For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY,NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@wwpublish.com. Subscribe wwnews-on@wwpublish.com Support the voice of resistance http://www.workers.org/orders/donate.php)
  
  P WP
  Bas Canada

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 10:58 am
  AFP, November 08, 2003 British think-tank says no EU membership for Croatia in 2007

  ZAGREB, (AFP) - Croatia has no chance of realising its ambition of entering the European Union in 2007, the director of one the world's leading think-tanks, London's Royal Institute of International Affairs, said here Friday.

  "I believe that Croatia will be invited to start negotiations, but it will not enter the EU before Romania, which means probably not before 2012," Victor Bulmer-Thomas told an international conference, quoted by the HINA news agency.

  He believed that, following a recent European Commission report, Romania will not enter the EU before 2010, rejecting a possibility that Zagreb might outstrip Bucharest.

  The European Commission, the EU's executive arm, said in a report Wednesday that Romania was not yet a functioning market economy, casting doubt on the country's readiness to join the union. Bulgaria and Romania both hope to join in 2007.

  Croatia applied for EU membership in February hoping to get the status of an official candidate early next year and catch up with Bulgaria and Romania.

  Bulmer-Thomas added that one of the biggest problems for Croatia was its regional position.

  If the EU accepted Croatia as a member it would then have Bosnia, a "fragile state which does not function," for a neighbour, and it does not want that to happen, he said.

  The two-day conference, entitled "NATO-EU and southeastern Europe", brought together participants from institutes in Albania, Bosnia, Britain, Canada, Croatia, France, Hungary, Italy, Macedonia, Russia, Sweden and the United States.
  
  Another Curious
  but better

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 12:07 pm
  BELGRADE, Serbia-Montenegro (AP) - Serbia-Montenegro's foreign minister on Wednesday accused UN war crimes tribunal prosecutors of doing a poor job in the trial of former president Slobodan Milosevic, saying the proceedings have produced little hard evidence.

  Goran Svilanovic, a member of the democratic leadership that ousted Milosevic in 2000 and then extradited him to the tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands, lashed out at the UN prosecutors, who recently accused his government of lack of co-operation.

  "They shouldn't blame Belgrade if things are not going very well . . . they should look at poor quality of their work," Svilanovic said, referring to the UN prosecutor's office, headed by Carla Del Ponte.

  Svilanovic said his government has co-operated with Del Ponte when she has asked for access to specific documents, but that it could not accept what he said was demands for unlimited access to classified documents and state archives, some of which may contain evidence against Milosevic and the other suspects being tried at the court.

  He said the prosecution was exerting "political pressure" on Serbia-Montenegro.

  "Except for a few convincing testimonies about specific crimes, we haven't really seen much more" at the Milosevic trial, Svilanovic said. The former president faces 66 counts of war crimes, including genocide, related to three Balkan wars.

  Svilanovic also accused the prosecution of violating what he described as "an understanding" that former Serbian president Milan Milutinovic, who surrendered voluntarily in January to answer charges related to the Kosovo war, be released pending trial because he turned himself in.

  The court decides whether a suspect should be provisionally released, but prosecutors can express their opinions. At a hearing in May, the prosecutors argued that Milutinovic's surrender was involuntary and that he had eluded justice for four years by retaining political immunity as Serbia's president.

  Belgrade has vouched for Milutinovic's return should he be released.

  In The Hague, tribunal spokeswoman Florence Hartmann said "no promises" were made about whether Milutinovic would be jailed. As far as documents were concerned, she said the court had been waiting for years in some cases to be able to look at files.

  She said the court was "not asking for full access," to state archives but only specific documents.

  Many Serbs view the tribunal as biased against their ethnic group, and Svilanovic said the prosecutors' actions "hardly help in improving the public perception."

  However, he thanked the UN prosecutors for helping to track down $60 million US that Milosevic had illegally siphoned to banks in Cyprus. The Belgrade government hopes to regain control of the "state money," Svilanovic said.
  
  Another Curious
  but better

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 3:37 pm
  Useful testimony from Srebrenica's deputy UNPROFOR commander at the "tribunal" today.

  SEE: http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg111303.htm
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 4:50 pm
  
  The crusaders launch ‘Operation Iron Hammer’

  Nine months ago Anglo/US dominated coalition forces illegally invaded a sovereign territory on the bogus pretexts that Iraq posed a clear and present danger to them with Weapons of Mass Destruction and had dangerous links to al-Qaeda. Neither excuse was true.

  Now that their occupation has invited an insurgency killing some 200 of their forces they assert that by directing disproportionate force against suspected guerrillas, they hope to limit terror attacks and also reassure a skittish domestic audience: according to military specialists. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, head of allied ground forces in Iraq, promised, "we're going to get pretty tough".

  Thus F16 fighter-bombers, a C130 Spectre gunship, attack helicopters and armoured companies have been deployed against these insurgents - and anybody else who gets in the way - during the past few days. Exploding up to 2,000 pound bombs and 105mm canon shells, kicking in the doors of private dwellings terrifying the women and children, killing scores of innocent Iraqis with indiscriminate gunfire and arresting/detaining some 6,000 men without charges.

  Do you see what a problem this sets for the authenticity of The Hague war crimes court trying Milosevic? A court paid for largely by US funds whose presiding judge, Richard May, is a New Labour associate of Blair. Blair the joint leader of Anglo/US coalition forces in Iraq and one of the principal critics of Milosevic’s alleged use of disproportionate force.

  Ironic is it not? Milosevic is on trial over Kosovo principally for using as Blair and his sycophantic associates put it disproportionate force against Islamist terrorists backed by al-Qaeda who were invading Serbian sovereign territory. Milosevic is accused of crimes against humanity in Kosovo: specifically for actions leading to the deaths of some 350 Kosovars named on the indictment.

  So we are told the coalition forces are heroes for using disproportionate force against a terror which their own illegal actions created to kill some 200 of their forces. But Serbian security forces are war criminals, on a par with the Nazis, for fighting Islamic terror in Kosovo Serbia’s own sovereign territory where the KLA backed by al-Qaeda murdered 300 of their police and hundreds more of Kosovo’s civilians.

  Blair’s coalition forces do not even bother to find out who or how many innocent civilians they kill! That says it all.

  No arrests of KLA war criminals yet: what does it take to embarrass these charlatans?

  All this ‘none sense’ is justice?
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 5:45 pm
  And what is your point curious?
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 8:55 pm
  The full text of Just Churious quote can be found at

  www.iccnow.org/romearchive/papers/1PrepCmt/Memorandum.pdf -

  What is your point?
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Thursday November 13, 2003 at 11:35 pm
  Dan, the best thing to do is to ignore that sort of posts. Don't waste your time/energy and leave it to Moderator to fix the problem.
  
  Pasha
  Oz

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 7:16 am
  Just Churious does have agenda, to bring down this discussion. That is why I am against swearing at least people who care about their voice heard. We can not prevent all idiots from posting how ever we can control our self. This goes to you M.P. of Panama. I have read your contributions in the past, I have found them very valuable and intelligent, and that is why I snapped at you for swearing (Sorry :). We have to exhibit some sense of self control to keep the level of this discussion on the intelligent level, since alternative could be jurist closing it all together.
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 9:55 am
  Yeah but isnt an education supposed to help a person express themselves without having a mouth like a filthy gutter? We all have a choice about the kind of language we use.

  When a person like myself stumbles upon Jurist and finds participants swearing in capital letters, sexual favours / insults it reflects badly upon other participants.

  The first thing that came to my mind was that only a couple of people complained so it must happen all the time. I wont be coming back.
  
  Peter Knox
  NY
  US

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 10:19 am
  Mr. Peter Knox,

  On several occasions I have asked the moderator could he apply some automatic filtering to eliminate certain posters. Nothing happened.

  I believe strongly that the intent of such people to sabotage and bring down the whole Forum. In the absence of any action by the moderator, the best thing is to totally ignore these people posts
  
  D. Jovanovic, physicist
  USA

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 10:50 am
  There is only so much mopderator can do, in all fearness and Peter Knox please do come back:)
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 11:36 am
  
  Will it all end in tears?

  There were rumours during his reign but he would not admit the fact:

  One of the rare successful achievements of Michael Steiner during his mandate (as Nato’s proconsul in Kosovo), at least in his personal life: He married a young local Albanian staff member that he dated for much of the time he was in power. Ethnic Albanian Bukurije Balaj is rumoured to be a former girlfriend and associate of Hashim Thaci.

  Does this explain Steiner’s sudden departure from Kosovo and why the New Variant KLA was able to indulge in murder and mayhem with impunity during his reign: especially does it explain Steiner’s order to release Thaci arrested in Hungary on an international warrant?

  Just like the ICTY that is also supposed to be unbiased Nato’s administration in Kosovo, UNMIK, demonstrates that the facts are not always what they claim.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 12:12 pm
  
  Hypocrisy writ large or what:

  The US administration and its media hacks are the principal funders and supporters of this farce in The Hague, the Trial of Milosevic. Can you see the funds flowing and the media hacks screaming about the mass graves in Vietnam?

  How many coalition personnel have been court marshalled for the many and manifest war crimes in Iraq?

  Answer: None!
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 12:52 pm
  That means: Same to you by the shinning sun. So where is rudeness there?
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 12:56 pm
  And I apologized even for the little bit I was rude. You have done more damage to this site than me, but if you want to pin it on me go ahead. I can use numbers from now on as well.
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 1:53 pm
  don't forget you toys
  
  
  

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 2:55 pm
  "Fowl language I have no right to use ( no as bad as F... word). This is to show that we can all use it but should try not to. I am not ging to visit this subject again an also I can take this personaly like MP and stop visiting this site like many other did: ..."
  Dakic Ana
  
  r. t.
  Deutschland

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 6:49 pm
  I have to say that I am amazed by the lack of discussion here. There are plenty of things that should be discussed.

  Col. Franken's testimony was a bombshell. Here is testimony from a 3rd party. He's not a Serb, he's not a Muslim. He was on the ground in Srebrenica at the critical time and neither him nor any of his men in the DutchBat batallion saw any executions taking place.

  Nor did this witness, who was the deputy commander of the UN batallion on the ground at the time, have any indication that Belgrade was involved.

  Srebrenica is the biggest crime that the Serbs are accused of and this witness totally exhonorated Serbia, Milosevic, and the FRY.

  What's more, he was on the ground commanding a UN batallion, at the critical time, and neither he nor any of his men saw the VRS engaging in any mass-executions.

  The VRS was responding to a provocation. The 28th Infantry division of the ABiH was carrying out an offensive and that is why the VRS attacked Srebrenica in the first place. It was a counter attack.

  This is the most important Srebrenica witness to testify and he totally blew the prosecution's case to pieces. The media hasn't said a single word about this either. I checked Lexis-Nexis and there is nothing in the media at all, not one word. The B-92 and Tanjug websites are totally silent.

  CIJ is uncharacteristicly quiet, although I must say that I am churious to see how Ms. Armatta will try to "spin" this one.

  The only way that it can be "proven" that the Serbs engaged in "genocide" at Srebrenica is for them to confess to it themselves. Unfortunately it looks as if some Quisling Serbs in Serbia and the R.S. might be inclined to do this.

  Svetozar Marovic's conduct in Sarajevo was disgraseful. Where does he get off apologising? What does Yugoslavia have to be sorry for?

  Is Marovic sorry because of all of the refugees that Yugoslavia had to take care of because Izetbegovic so quick to "sacrifice peace in order to win sovereignty for Bosnia"?

  Is Marovic sorry because of the humanitarian aid that Yugoslavia extended to the victims of Izetbegovic's war?

  You only apologize when you've done something wrong, and Yugoslavia did *NOTHING* wrong. I noticed that apologies weren't exchanged at all. All Sarajevo said in response to Marovic's apology was thanks for the apology but we're still going to sue you.

  Then there's that stupid Minister for Human and Minority Rights, Rasim Ljajic who goes and writes an obituary for Alija Izetbegovic in the Dnevni avaz newspaper. He calls Izetbegovic "dear president," and then praises him for his work.

  What gives a minister who is supposed to be protecting human and minority rights the right to praise a man who provoked a war that ruined an entire country and killed hundreds of thousands of people?

  Then you have the police beating striking workers on the front steps of the Serbian parliament. Not only does this pack of quislings privatize the people right out of their jobs, but then they have the audacity to beat the people in the streets when they protest.

  All of this is happening and what are we talking about here? Fowl language. Of course fowl language is bad and has no place but there are more important things to discuss right now.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Friday November 14, 2003 at 7:34 pm
  Amen Andy
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia