MILOSEVIC TRIAL DISCUSSION ARCHIVE

Is Slobodan Milosevic getting a fair trial?
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• discussion archive

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 4:51 am
  Anna Lindh murder: Mijailo Mijailovic - Killer of the Swedish Minister Ana Lindh.

  Mijailo Mijailovic - ubica svedske ministarke Ane Lind

  For the non Serbo-Croat speakers, I'll translate (badly) a few points from the above:

  1: The Swedish police are almost certain he did it;

  2: He is 24 and was born in Sweden, his parents came to Sweden in the early 70s;

  3: He was let out of the nuthouse 5 days before the killing (?);

  4: Very dodgy family (he was happier in prison than at home);

  5: Big fan of the Zemun clan - greatest idol was Dragan Joksovic from CG who was killed a while back in Stockholm;

  6: Lindh was 'responsible' for Swedens role in bombing Yug in 1999.

  Apologies again for any dodgy translation.

  On a related note, I saw on Belgian/Dutch tv a documentary on the famed Swedish 'neutrality'. It was in fact a myth as successive governments since the end of World War II worked hand in glove with the Western Powers/NATO. Lest us not forget the export of iron ore etc. from 'neutral' Sweden to Nazi Germany during WWII.
  
  Alexei Gorbulski
  Brussels
  Belgium

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 8:23 am
  Duh! Old News!
  
  AG AG
  Belgium

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 10:28 am
  As reported by Dan B, Canada (on Monday September 29, 2003 at 7:01 pm) the SLOBODA/Freedom Association held its Assembly Meeting in Belgrade on September 27, 2003.

  The Assembly unanimously adopted the following:

  RESOLUTION:

  For the Immediate Release of President Slobodan Milosevic

  1. President Slobodan Milosevic, fighting on the front lines in the struggle for truth, freedom, national sovereignty and dignity, raises the hopes and self-confidence of the people and inspires all progressive men and women in the world with his merit, strength and self-sacrifice. In despair, due to the failed attempt to distort our history in accordance with the plans of the secret and propaganda services of the aggressors, the Hague tribunal has reached the level of unimpeded crime.

  Acting together, the judges and the prosecutors of the tribunal are trying to prevent President Milosevic from presenting the full truth about the aggressors and their servants, physically even threatening his life.

  Instead of providing therapy and recuperation in freedom, as demanded by the President's medical condition - which no judge has a right to deny and especially not to refuse without discussion - the President has been forced to prepare within three months, in fact in six weeks, from a prison cell, a presentation to bury forever the whole aggressor's propaganda, systematized in the "prosecution case", through several years of work of intelligence services and hundreds of tribunal's employees, who have been paid with hundreds of millions of dollars. In his life threatening physical condition he is expected to analyze within six weeks several hundred thousand pages of the prosecution disclosure, several tens of thousand pages of the transcripts, to contact and prepare for testimony at least 300 of his witnesses, to collect and systematize several hundred of thousand pages of his own documents and to inform the prosecution of all of this in advance! Even from the point of view of elementary logic, this is an impossible task to perform. On top of this, the witnesses and evidence he will be allowed to present, only the so-called judges will decide that! And all that in a situation where the visits of his wife and son, as well as all members of SLOBODA and all members of SPS, are banned.

  Against freedom - bombs! Against truth - Inquisition!

  2. They created the terrorists, they organized and financed their crimes, and then they used them as an excuse for the bombing and submission of a whole people, and for the cruel persecution of honest fighters and patriots. And still the terrorists remain unpunished.

  There is even more dirty work than the work of Carla Del Ponte and the other Hague mercenaries. For that work the people of the criminal past and present are charged, who step on human rights, democracy and the freedom of the press in the same way as the Chilean or Turkish military juntas have done in the past. The people who call themselves ministers and who for their "democratic achievements" receive praise and tips from the foreign ambassadors ruling Serbia.

  The persecution of the family and associates of President Milosevic goes on. And he himself is attacked by ruthless, false and absurd charges which are motivated by one overarching goal - to destroy even the hope for Serbia to restore its freedom.

  3. The Hague-DOS machinery for destruction of the people and of their dignity, for the murder of freedom and the annihilation of the nation, trembles before every expression of resistance by the people. As NATO was shaken during the aggression, today confronted by Slobodan Milosevic and SLOBODA, The Hague and DOS are in agony.

  The bigger the resistance to the machinery of crime, the bigger the international solidarity. From day to day, since The Hague has shown openly its criminal face, the Russian Duma, American academics, Canadian lawyers, German doctors, the International and the National Committees for the defense of Slobodan Milosevic and many others, demand from the United Nations, from their countries' governments and from the tribunal itself - freedom for Slobodan!

  The battles for the freedom of Slobodan Milosevic and for the freedom and dignity of Serbia are one in the same battle. They can be won only if the humiliation, dissatisfaction and anger of the people are turned into the gathering and the common organized action of all patriots, of all honest people and of all of their political and creative potentials. SLOBODA exists for that goal and will be totally devoted to it.

  4. A fighter to free humanity from the global tyranny of the "New World Order", the most important political prisoner of today, the war prisoner of NATO, several times democratically and directly elected President of all citizens of Serbia and the legitimate President of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia - Slobodan Milosevic must be immediately released from the Hague dungeon!

  After two years in freedom, so that he would have at least approximately the same possibility to present the truth as much as the Tribunal has presented its lies - that was and is a gentleman's fair proposal by a great man capable of offering even his enemies the chance to show a human face. Two years in freedom is also the necessary guarantee for protecting the life of President Milosevic and for insuring that the full truth about the epic suffering and heroism of this people in its struggle for freedom and also about the crimes committed against are recorded in history.

  The SLOBODA/Freedom Association, led by Slobodan Milosevic, will mobilize all patriotic and progressive forces to continue the struggle for the universal values of freedom and justice, the struggle to restore freedom and democracy in Serbia - until victory!

  Belgrade, September 27, 2003

  Assembly of SLOBODA/Freedom Association

  The Serbian original of the Resolution and the pictures from the SLOBODA Assembly can be seen at:

  http://www.sloboda.org.yu/aktuelno/skupstina.htm (relayed as received by)
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 11:36 am
  Will somebody better informed piece together for me what it is known by now of the “massacre” at Srebrenica.

  The latest admission by the Serbian officer that he lied and in fact did not witness the massacre,only witness I know of is the Croat, Drezenocic who “admitted” killing a hundred Bosniaks himself. ( He got 5 years and is now already free)

  On the other hand our ex-President goes and gives speeches at the memorial to that massacre.

  I truly believe that this is some contorted fabrication. Some killing may have happened but a “massacre” of 7000 DID NOT.

  Please, what are the current testimonies revealing and who is to be trusted?
  
  D. Jovanovic
  USA

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 5:20 pm
  D. Jovanovic,
  I am not able to follow the trial. The most recent item I have about Srebrenica is this:
  
  Released by: The International Strategic Studies Association Balkan & Eastern Mediterranean Policy Council
  
  "Official" Story of Srebrenica Casualty Number is Challenged by Experts
  
  WASHINGTON, DC, September 18, 2003: On the eve of the dedication of a monument to Muslims killed at Srebrenica, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in 1995, a group which includes a former UN official, intelligence experts, and journalists, released a statement challenging the official alleged casualty number of 7,000 victims as "vastly inflated and unsupported by evidence.".

  I believe this complete article was posted here. I'm not sure because the ARCHIVES for the beginning of September are missing. I don't want to do it and block the page. I did a Google search and found it posted at Free Republic. I am still wondering why there is only one article about the lying Srebrenica witness, Momir Nikolic, at the IWPR of all places and no other news agency has it.
  
  Nikole J
  Canada

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 6:47 pm
  
  Blair’s chums in Kosovo:

  Pimps, drug traffickers, ethnic cleansers and more recently child murderers associated with al-Qaeda according to the Belgrade daily Kurir 1 October 2003:

  Several hundred Mujaheddin financed by bin Laden in Kosovo and Metohija - Who committed the crime in Gorazdevac. The headquarters of this unit of 110 Mujaheddin was formerly in Donji Prekaz. With funding from Saudi Arabia, a well-equipped terrorist training center for ethnic Albanians was founded, who were then promoted into Mujaheddin.

  Albanian terrorists opened automatic gun fire on August 13 on a group of children bathing in the Bistrica River near Gorazdevac. Ivan Jovovic (20) and Pantelija Dakic (10) were killed in the attack. Six other children were seriously wounded. Bogdan Bukumiric (15) spent six days in a coma and his life was barely saved by the physicians of the Medical Military Academy in Belgrade.

  When will the British people acknowledge Blair’s fraudulent claims of fighting Islamic terror while he continues to support it in Kosovo.

  And when will del Ponte do her duty and put a stop to this thuggery by indicting the KLA leadership under which all this had developed.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 6:52 pm
  Here is the link to the Srebrenica statement by the ISSA

  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986581/posts
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 7:26 pm
  Another article that I find appaling and written by no one else but Jeffrey T. Kuhner. http://dynamic.washtimes.com/print_story.cfm?StoryID=20030930-084113-1005r "The United States should not only support the Bosnian Croats' right to self-determination, but also provide them with intelligence and military assistance to contain the growth of radical Islam in the region." "The Croats, on the other hand, view Washington as their strategic partner. As one high-ranking Bosnian Croat government official told me: "We can act as the eyes and ears for the West in the Balkans and monitor the activities of al Qaeda in Bosnia." It is funny that this journalist is writing this. When the Serbs told Clinton all this he would not listen, so I wonder who would be more reliable in this? The Croatian government that cleansed Serbs from Krajina or the Serbs that tried to fight against the Mujahedeen that Clinton sent?
  
  Dan B
  Canada

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 9:27 pm
  I am sure that those participating in some of the heated discussions concerning the leadership of the ICDSM, and Ramsey Clark’s role in attacking Milosevic while pretending to defend him, will find the following most interesting. Emperor’s Clothes has just published the transcript and audio-file of a phone conversation that makes many things clear. 1. In the phone conversation, Vladimir Krsljanin agrees that Ramsey Clark attacked Milosevic. 2. However, the last thing he wants is to do something about it. He shows himself vehemently against even sending an email to Clark explaining that he has been removed as co-chairman of the ICDSM. 3. And he is against sending this notification even though he agrees that this is precisely what President Milosevic had instructed him to do. 4. In fact, Krsljanin states very clearly in this conversation that in his view, the ICDSM should in general not do what president Milosevic asks. Clearly, Vladimir Krsljanin is a friend of Ramsey Clark, who by Krsljanin's admission attacks Milosevic. Can he then be a friend of President Milosevic? A most interesting tape! English version In Serbian: Serbian version Best,
  
  Francisco Gil-White
  Pennsylvania

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 9:29 pm
  

  I am sure that those participating in some of the heated discussions concerning the leadership of the ICDSM, and Ramsey Clark’s role in attacking Milosevic while pretending to defend him, will find the following most interesting.

  Emperor’s Clothes has just published the transcript and audio-file of a phone conversation that makes many things clear.

  1. In the phone conversation, Vladimir Krsljanin agrees that Ramsey Clark attacked Milosevic.

  2. However, the last thing he wants is to do something about it. He shows himself vehemently against even sending an email to Clark explaining that he has been removed as co-chairman of the ICDSM.

  3. And he is against sending this notification even though he agrees that this is precisely what President Milosevic had instructed him to do.

  4. In fact, Krsljanin states very clearly in this conversation that in his view, the ICDSM should in general not do what president Milosevic asks.

  Clearly, Vladimir Krsljanin is a friend of Ramsey Clark, who by Krsljanin's admission attacks Milosevic. Can he then be a friend of President Milosevic?

  A most interesting tape!

  English version

  In Serbian:

  Serbian version

  Best,

  
  
  Francisco Gil-White
  Pennsylvania

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 9:43 pm
  Thank you Dan B, from Canada
  
  D. Jovanovic
  USA

• Wednesday October 01, 2003 at 11:00 pm
  Dan B,

  It is not funny that Jeffrey T. Kuhner would wite such an editorial. The man is a whore. Just plug his name into Google and you can see that he is an nothing more than an apologist for the Croats.

  What makes people like Kuhner dangerous is the fact that people view him as impartial since he is assistant editor of the Washington Times. In reality Kuhner is nothing more than a propagandist working for the Croats, and has no place at a newspaper that presents itself as unbiased.

  When you view his work as a whole you can see him for exactly for who and what he is.

  For this guy to suggest that the Croats would make good allies in a struggle against religious fascism is laughable.

  The money that the Ustasha looted from the Serbs and Jews who had the misfortune of finding themselves in the Independant State of Croatia is still locked away in the Vatican bank.

  If keeping the money looted from holocaust victims wasn't bad enough the Pope beatified Alojzjie Stepinac in 1998.

  What Kuhner says is stupid. The Croats were part of the scheme to get the Mujahedeen into Bosnia in the first place! They are as much to blame as anybody for the problem.

  The mujahedeen came in right along with the weapons. Both were smuggled into Bosnia through CROATIA, and as payment for allowing this the Croats skimmed 30% of the weapons off the top and let the other 70% goto their allies the Muslims.

  If the Croats are getting beaten up by Mujahedeens now that can only be viewed as their own fault since it was them who let the Mujahedeens into Bosnia in the first place!
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 2:43 am
  Francisco Gil-White and/or Andy Wilcoxson,

  Who exactly are Ramsey Clark and Vladimir Krsljanin, and what should it matter what either one of them says?

  Lots of people attack Milosevic. What makes those two so special?
  
  Neal Massy
  Edmonton
  Alberta, Canada

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 5:58 am
  IS MR. MILOSEVIC GETTING A FAIR TRIAL?

  On Tuesday 30th September 2003 the ICTY Tribunal at The Hague heard a submission from the Prosecution that if accepted would mean the imposition of Defence Counsel on President Milosevic against his will, and would enable the trial to proceed without the presence of the accused.

  Copy the ICDSM Press Release at:

  http://www.icdsm.org/press300903.htm
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 7:18 am
  D. Jovanovic,

  whatever happened, then what has the "massacre" at Srebrenica got to do with mr. Milosevic, - and in particular with the question of whether or not the then President of Serbia is getting a fair trial at The Hague?

  (ref.: October 01, 2003 at 11:36 am)
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 7:20 am
  BALKAN & EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN POLICY COUNCIL

  PO Box 20407, Alexandria, Virginia 22320, USA Telephone (703) 548-1070. Facsimile (703) 684-7476. Website: www.StrategicStudies.org. Contact: Gregory Copley, 703-548-1070

  Srebrenica Casualty Numbers Challenged by Experts as Politicized and Ethnically Divisive

  WASHINGTON, DC, September 18, 2003: On the eve of the dedication of a monument to Muslims killed at Srebrenica, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in 1995, a group which includes a former UN official, intelligence experts, and journalists, released a statement challenging the alleged casualty number of 7,000 victims as "vastly inflated and unsupported by evidence".

  They asserted that one-sided interventionist policies permitted al-Qaida forces and radical Islamists backed by the Iranian clerical government to take root during the Bosnian war, clouding the future of the region. As well, they agreed that the "memorialization" of false numbers in the monument actually appeared to be intended to perpetuate regional ethnic hatred and distrust and to deliberately punish one of the victim groups in the Bosnian civil war. Former US President Bill Clinton is expected to attend and legitimize the dedication of the monument at Srebrenica, which was constructed using one million dollars of US Embassy funds at the request of High Representative Paddy Ashdown. But former BBC journalist Jonathan Rooper, who has researched the events in Srebrenica since 1995, says that the region was a graveyard for Serbs as well as Muslims and that a monument to inflated casualties on one side "serves neither truth nor the goal of reconciliation".

  Phillip Corwin, former UN Civilian Affairs Coordinator in Bosnia during the 1990s, said: "What happened in Srebrenica was not a single large massacre of Muslims by Serbs, but rather a series of very bloody attacks and counterattacks over a three year period which reached a crescendo in July of 1995." Mr. Corwin is author of Dubious Mandate, an account of his experiences during the conflict. He points out that Srebrenica, which was designated a safe zone, was never demilitarized as it was claimed to be, and that Muslim paramilitary leader Nasir Oric, who controlled Srebrenica, launched repeated attacks on surrounding Serb villages. He noted: "I was the United Nations" chief political officer in Bosnia the day that Srebrenica fell. Coincidentally, it was the same day that the Bosnian Government tried to assassinate me as I drove over Mount Igman on the way to Sarajevo."

  Intelligence expert and strategist Gregory Copley, President of the International Strategic Studies Association and the ISSA's Balkan & Eastern Mediterranean Policy Council, accused US Ambassador Donald Hays, who serves as Deputy High Representative of Bosnia-Herzegovina, of using the power of the Office of the High Representative (OHR) governing Bosnia "to force Bosnian Serb elected officials to sign a fraudulent document accepting the official version of events in Srebrenica. The leaders of Republica Srpska [the predominantly Serbian province of Bosnia-Herzegovina] invited the office of the High Representative to join their investigation of the events in Srebrenica. Instead they were told they were told to sign a statement drafted by OHR endorsing casualty figures they publicly disagreed with." Copley added: "It is significant in that the former US Clinton Administration fought this war unquestioningly supporting only the Croat and Muslim factions and disregarding the historic alliance of the Serbian peoples with the US. Then, after the war, the Clinton Administration failed to follow US tradition in helping to heal the wounds of war, but, rather, perpetuated ethnic divisions and hatreds. This differs from the US role in all other wars."

  "Unfortunately, all of the policies and officials put in place in the region by the Clinton Administration remain. The current Bush Administration has neglected the Balkans and has, instead, allowed the Clinton policies to continue, which has meant that divisive politics continue. This, then, requires the ongoing commitment of US peacekeeping forces in both Bosnia and in the Kosovo province of Serbia."

  Copley added that, according to intelligence obtained from Islamist sources, that the monument was intended to become a shrine for radical Islamists in Europe and site for annual pilgrimages. He added: "Deputy High Representative Donald Hays forced the Republica Srpska Government to issue a statement which accepted the radical Islamists" version of the Srebrenica affair, despite the fact that the Office of High Representative does not have any investigative capability of its own to make a valid assumption on the matter. As well, the International Criminal Tribunal on Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague " no friend of the Serbs " has itself not completed its investigation of Srebrenica, and nor has the office of the Government of Republica Srpska which has been working with the ICTY."

  Amb.. Hays and OHR chief Paddy Ashdown forced the Republica Srpska statement merely to ensure that the opening of the "shrine" " to be attended by Clinton " would vindicate Clinton Administration policies of support for the radical Islamists." Yossef Bodansky, who has written several books on the war in Yugoslavia and also serves as Research Director of ISSA, calls the 7,000 figure "disinformation" and notes that "all independent forensic evidence points to Muslim casualties in the hundreds, possibly the low hundreds. Continued emphasis on such allegedly high numbers of Muslim deaths at Srebrenica also obfuscates the Muslim murders in that city, earlier, of Serb civilians." Bodansky also wrote extensively on the link between Osama bin Laden and the Bosnian Islamists in numerous articles and special reports and three books, including Offensive in the Balkans: the Potential for a Wider War as a Result of Foreign Intervention in Bosnia-Herzegovina (1995), Some Call it Peace: Waiting for War in the Balkans (1996), and Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America (1999).

  Rooper says that at least 1,000 Serbs, mostly civilians, were killed by forces led by Oric who did not bother to hide his crimes, even showing videotapes of slaughtered Serbs to Western journalists. Meanwhile a group of academic experts and journalists from the United States, Canada, Germany, France, Serbia, and the United Kingdom has been organized by Professor Edward S. Herman of the University of Pennsylvania to examine the evidence regarding events at Srebrenica in July 1995 and earlier, how the media reported these events, and the political role of claims about Srebrenica. It is expected that a report from this group will be available in June 2004. Rooper points out that the 40,000 inhabitants the UN used in July of 1995 before the capture of Srebrenica roughly matches the number of former residents accounted for in the aftermath. A commander of the Muslim-dominated Army of BiH (Bosnia-Herzegovina) later confirmed to parliament in Sarajevo that 5,000 BiH troops escaped largely intact to Tuzla while the UN registered some 35,632 civilian survivors.

  While the capture of Srebrenica was reported in July 1995, as it unfolded, an international outcry only took place a month later, after Madeleine Albright, then US representative to the UN, held up a photo which she said provided evidence that thousands of Muslim victims had been buried at field near Nova Kasaba, 19 kilometers from Srebrenica. Excavations which took place following the war, however, yielded 33 bodies at Nova Kasaba. Two years after the event, a total of 400 bodies had been found at 20 sites near Srebrenica, an area which had seen bloody fighting over a three year period. Instead of acknowledging that there was no support for the original figures, Rooper says a various means were used to prop up the official story.

  "Spokesmen for the Clinton Administration suggested that Serbs might have moved the bodies to other locations. Rooper points out that excavating, transporting and reburying 7,000 bodies was "not only beyond the capabilities of the thinly stretched, petrol-starved Bosnian Serb Army, but would have been easily detected under intense surveillance from satellites and geostationary drones.

  By 1998, thousands of bodies excavated from all across Bosnia were stored at the Tuzla airport. Despite state of the art DNA testing, only 200 bodies have been linked to Srebrenica. Around 3,000 names on a list of Srebrenica victims compiled by the Red Cross matched voters in the Bosnian election in 1996. "I pointed out to the OSCE that there had either been massive election fraud or almost half the people on the ICRC missing list were still alive," says Rooper. "The OSCE finally responded that the voting lists had been locked away in warehouses and it would not be possible for them to investigate."

  The inflated Srebrenica statistics are part of a larger picture that intelligence experts such as Bodansky and Copley find troubling. They say US policymakers have been slow to recognize that Bosnia is viewed as a strategic base for operations in Europe by al-Qaida and the HizbAllah. In 1993, when the Clinton Administration was strongly backing the Muslim President of Bosnia, Alija Izetbegovic, Osama Bin Ladin was regular visitor to his office, according to Renate Flottau of the German weekly, Der Spiegel. The Bosnian daily, Dani, reported that the Vienna Embassy of BiH issued a passport to Bin Ladin in 1993.

  A special report by Copley, issued Tuesday, September 16. 2003. noted that Bosnia-Herzegovina Ambassador Huso Zivalj, who issued the passport to Bin Ladin, later served as Bosnian Ambassador to the United Nations in September 11. "It is becoming increasingly clear that the movement of Zivalj to the New York post just before (and his departure just after) the September 11,2001 attacks was not coincidental."

  "To refer to US Bosnia policy as a success story is to disregard substantial evidence to the contrary. Instead of misplaced symbolism in Srebrenica, US policymakers need to take a hard look at assumptions which have guided US actions in the region," Copley said.
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 9:06 am
  D. Jovanovic,

  Drazen Erdemovic is the only Srebrenica witness to testify at the Milosevic "trial."
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 11:00 am
  

  More of the same
  
  Gogol Charlemagne
  Shangri-La

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 11:32 am
  Andy Wilcoxson (and D. Jovanovic),

  what has "Srebrenica" got to do with mr. Milosevic? And in particular with the question of whether or not he is getting a fair trial at The Hague?

  The decisive question seems to me to be whether or not mr. Milosevic, then President of Serbia, is in any way responsible for planning, preparing or executing whatever crimes were committed at Srebrenica - and this question is of basic relevance irrespectively of the number of possible victims.

  This basic question of "commitment" is applicable in fact to all of the "Bosnia and Herzegovina" case, - and if it isn't answered properly by the Prosecution, (which it isn't yet!)then there is nothing the Trial Chamber can do but to aquit mr. Milosevic on all charges.
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 11:41 am
  Nikole J.
  
  Vojislav Seselj is a fascist, antisemite and racist...
  
  
  the only good thing about Hague tribunal is that Seselj is there.
  
  Pantelija Damjanovic
  Republic of Srpska/Bosnia-Herzegovina

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 12:12 pm
  Srebrenica, and whatever happened there has nothing at all to do with Milosevic.

  There is absolutely no evidence at all that indicates that Milosevic planned or ordered any operations of any sort outside of the borders of Serbia.

  However, it is in the vital interest of the Serbian people to establish the truth about what happened at Srebrenica and that is something that Slobodan Milosevic has pledged to do.
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 12:21 pm
  Pantelija Damjanovic,

  You may be right, - Vojislav Seselj is not however in The Hague for being "a fascist, antisemite and racist."

  Neither is he there for being a "nationalist". None of these "classifications" warrants an unfair trial, - or even the imposition of a Counsel or other measures against the will of a defendant.

  So what's your point about the ICTY Tribunal being "good" for something?
  
  Godfred Louis-Jensen
  Copenhagen
  D E N M A R K

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 1:25 pm
  I would not go that far to say Seselj fascist. He is extreme and bloodthirsty type. Somehow he's also comic type on the Serbian sene. At same time he is definately not some kind of hero. More like a criminal.

  My opinion is Seselj will have much harder time than Milosevic because of public statements he made. Milosevic never made risky public statements and that helps him at Hague

  Godfred I think most people in Serbia / Bosnia / really dont have time or inclined to follow tribunal. We instead make general comments through our personal experiences and political rulers. It is not easy to just forget about the past and think about charges. In some way that is argument for a court outside of Balkans but I agree there are many problems at Hague. At same time I want more trials in Serbia. It is time to show we can do job ourselves.
  
  Arandjel Pasic
  Serbia S CG

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 1:39 pm
  I don't defend Seselj. My point about Seselj is that it's enough to label a Serb "nationalist" and he's on the way to being "guilty." In the end, it will be enough to be "Serb" and be "guilty." That's where the tribunal heads.
  
  Nikole J
  Canada

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 6:31 pm
  
  Better late than never: The truth about Kosovo

  NATO occupied the province (Kosovo) that June (1999), and since then Serbs, Gypsies and other non-Albanian minorities have been killed, kidnapped and assaulted by Albanian nationalists, the former rebels, who systematically dynamite historic Serbian churches and monasteries in Kosovo while aiding and abetting armed ethnic mischief in neighboring Macedonia.

  Commentry by Terence Sherdidan in the Athens News Ohio, 2 October 2003.

  One thing we can all be sure about is that the true history of Kosovo will gradually emerge. The Blairs’ lies of rape camps and slaughter to justify their illegal bombing of Serbia will be revealed along with their equally immoral and covert support for Islamic terror.

  How many so-called journalists will now admit their errors and how many hacks will go down in history as such - laughing all the way to the bank.
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Thursday October 02, 2003 at 9:39 pm
  I have been away for awhile, without computer access, so if the following has already been posted and/or discussed, please excuse.,p>Excerpt from the Stratfor Report , dated Sept. 22, 2003:

  "The paradox is this. Should the Islamist forces in Bosnia, Kosovo, or other parts of the region move aggressively, the United States does not have sufficient forces in either place, and the willingness of European governments to act decisively is, at least in our minds, questionable. Their definition of decisive action may differ from that of the United States. The only power that has an interest in controlling Islamic actions in the region is, interestingly, Serbia. Different time, different regime, but same national interests. What could happen is that, in the end, the United States may rely on the Serbs to deal with the current war."
  
  M Donne
  Canada

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 12:16 am
  From a NYT review of Albright's new autobiography, October 1, 2003 page B7
  Author is Christopher Coldwell, a senior editor at The Weekly Standard

  Dr. Albright also lobbied persuasively, abroad and in the White House, for the 1999 Kosovo war which NTO won only after an unexpectedly arduous 77-day bombing campaign. The conflict so reflects her style of diplomacy that "Time" magazine called it "Madeleine's War." The unambiguous autocracy of the Serbian leader, Slobodan Milosevic, did not make the war unambiguously justifiable, and Dr. Albright sought to force a consensus by erasing the distinction between excesses in Serbia's antiterrorist operation and the worst political crimes ever committed.

  
  
  Nikole J
  Canada

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 10:05 am
  http://cbsnewyork.com/international/Bosnia-MassGrave-ai/resources_news_html
  
  Nico Neznanovic
  US

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 12:41 pm
  Arandjele,
  You say you wouldn't go that far and to call Seselj a fascist.
  Since you live in Serbia I am sure you know some facts that absolutely prove that he is.
  
  Remember when he published "protocols of the elders of Zion" in 1994, 1996 and 1998 in his papers "Velika Srbija" and distributed it for free, remember what kind of public outrage that caused in Serbia?
  But Seselj's guys responded that "those who burn books could burn people as well".
  
  Remember the murder of a 16 year old Roma boy in belgrade, when Seselj had to go on TV to say that didn't have anything to do with his propaganda? The whole Serbia had risen then. He had to say it.
  It is well known that the Serbian skinhead group (about 50 "rich boys") founded in Belgrade in 1994. was connected to Seselj, that was responsible for the murder.
  
  Who talks of Judeo-Masonic conspiracies against Serbs all the time? =Vojo Seselj and his party.
  They say - Albright is a Jew, Clark is a jew, jews published an article in the new york times denouncing Serbs...therefore according to Seselj Jews hate Serbs.
  
  Seselj's best friends are (or were) neo-nazi lunatics like Jean Marie Le Pen, Lukasenko, Zirinovski and russian nazi organization "Pamyat".
  
  So would it be untrue to say he is a nazi bastard?
  
  
  Godfried,
  
  Seselj did organize groups that commited crimes against humanity in Bosnia, if anyone could tell you about it, I do, I live there.
  
  For all I care they can hang him on the main square in Hague.
  
  Pantelija Damjanovic
  Banja Luka
  Bosnia and Herzegovina

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 5:16 pm
  On the morning Sept 27th, 2003, the Emperor's New Clothes published transcripts of a private telephone conversation. It was then called a “three-way.” The link read, and still reads http://emperors-clothes.com_dispute_3way.htm .

  For those of us who saw the original, we were treated to a three-way conversation between Jared Israel, Nico Varkevisser, and Vladimir Krsljanin. Varkevisser’s participation in the conversation is of great interest. Varkevisser discussed the content of conversations he’d had with President Milosevic at the United Nations Detention Unit in The Hague. As some of you may remember, this first version of what we can safely call "Vladimirgate" was quickly scrubbed from the internet that very morning at approximately 9 am EST. For a few hours, this link led to an error message. In the meantime, Andy Wilcoxson prematurely ejaculated: “game, set, match. The bullshit is over.” Those of us interested in Mr. Wilcoxson’s demonstration tried in vain to access this Excalibur of Truth. Unfortunately there was nothing to access. Andy’s buddies over at tenc might’ve felt that their young friend had embarrassed them and they were thus forced to post John Flaherty’s notice:

  Dear Readers....

  The commentary and notes accompanying the transcript are being edited. We'll be reposting by Sunday.

  John Flaherty

  Emperor's Clothes

  All the Jurist readers waited with bated breath for Andy’s promise of a “game, set, match” to be revealed. Finally, on Sept 29th, tenc posted the “revised” transcript. For those of us following along, and who finally clicked Andy’s link to a “three-way,” we were sad to see that one of the players was gone. We also noticed that the Emperor had posted a completely different conversation. So we are left to wonder why that is.

  Oh, now we remember! In early September didn’t Godfred Louis-Jensen post a letter from Sloboda to the President of the Tribunal demanding that the ban on visits to President Milosevic be reversed? That motion described the ICTY Registrar’s ban on visits to President Milosevic by members of the SPS, Sloboda, and “associated entities.” The Registrar imposed this measure in application of the Tribunal’s “rule,” forbidding disclosure to the press of the content of conversation between visitors and a UNDU detainee.

  Let’s recap: The ICTY has adopted an egregiously unfair rule with respect to visits with detainees. Visitors are not allowed to disclose the contents of their conversations to the media, let alone post them all over the internet, and if they choose to violate this very questionable rule, they will be subject to banishment from the UNDU. Looks like Jared figured that out sometime in the morning of Saturday, September 27th, and scrubbed the evidence that Nico Varkevisser had violated the ICTY rule on disclosing conversations with detainees to the media.

  Why is this important? This is important because despite the Registrar’s oppressive and unjust ban on visitors to President Milosevic, including every single member of the SPS, Sloboda, as well as “associated entities,” which the Tribunal enjoys complete discretion in defining, Mr. Varkevisser has repeated access to President Milosevic. Let us ponder the following: wouldn’t the Tribunal, which is obviously attempting to cripple President Milosevic’s, defense, include the notorious ICDSM in its blanket definition of “associated entities”? Yet, Mr. Varkevisser, as of the moment of this writing, still claims to be a leader of the ICDSM. He violates the Tribunal’s rules with respect to disclosure of conversations held in the UNDU, he claims to be a leader of the ICDSM, an entity surely associated with Sloboda, and yet Mr. Varkevisser enjoys an access to President Milosevic which, sadly, thousands of his real friends, supporters, and members of his own family cannot dream of.

  Are we to conclude that Nico Varkevisser is considered by the Tribunal to be of special value? Mr. Varkevisser and his tenc associate have done nothing to indicate that they were opposed to the ban on visits to President Milosevic. Contrast this with Sloboda's exhaustive legal challenge http://www.sloboda.org.yu/engleski/indexeng1.html And tenc wants us to believe that Vladimir Krsljanin, the man who sends out all the useful and timely info on the struggle of Slobodan Milosevic and Sloboda, is the bad guy? Here's a newsflash: tenc supports the ban - they are its beneficiaries. It's time to face the facts: whether they know it or not, these guys are batting clean-up for NATO.
  
  Deep Throat
  Brussels

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 6:20 pm
  Pantelija Damjanovic

  Why don't you put foot where your mouth is and volunteer yourself and your extensive knowledge about crimes Seselj committed and become a witness for prosecutors in Hague?
  
  Dakic Ana
  Serbia

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 8:00 pm
  

  To Mr. Krsljanin's friend, "Deep Throat"

  Your claim that Emperor's Clothes supports the isolation of President Milosevic is bullshit. The position of Emperor's Clothes is that President Milosevic should be released from the prison, but if he is forced to remain in custody then he should at least be permitted to receive visits from anybody he wishes.

  Your claim that Mr. Varkevisser "is considered by the Tribunal to be of special value" is something that only a retarded person could say.

  Mr. Varkevisser has attempted to visit the President on 6 occasions - each time at the request of the president. 2 visits were simply denied by the registrar with no explanation given, 2 visits were sabotaged, and only on 2 occasions has Mr. Varkevisser been allowed to visit the president.

  By way of contrast, not only has Ramsey Clark been given access to the President without his request (the last time being nearly a year ago), but the tribunal, against the will of President Milosevic, attempted to appoint Ramsey Clark as the President's legal advisor, to which President Milosevic reacted by saying:

  "I have been informed in the meantime that without my request, you have assigned certain advice that I did not ask for, interpreting my agreement to receive visits by certain individuals as a request for legal advice. My response to that has been addressed to the registry that I do not consider that whoever visits me and has a law degree should be appointed as my legal counsel, and I don't think it would be permissible for visits to continue to be restricted, visits by persons who wish to visit me in accordance with the Rules that you have established and on a nondiscriminatory basis, since other people in that prison are allowed such visits" - Slobodan Milosevic, November 11, 2002.

  As for Krsljanin's character, and the issue of whether or not he implemented the will of President Milosevic regarding the removal of Clark from the ICDSM co-presidency, I all I can do is suggest that people listen to the tape and make up their own minds:

  http://emperors-clothes.com/dispute/3way.htm
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 8:12 pm
  My apologies the link I posted was not a live hyperlink, here it is in clickable form:

  http://emperors-clothes.com/dispute/3way.htm
  
  Andy Wilcoxson
  Washington, United States

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 8:33 pm
  Oh¡ Carla , Carla , please 6 days for Croatia to arrest Grl.Gotovina . What the hell you have been smoking ? that's real good stuff babe¡¡¡
  
  M P
  Rep de Panama

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 8:53 pm
  
  The false numbers game is being played again

  How does “Forty soldiers injured a week” result in an average of some forty new “seriously injured” soldiers being treated each day in the Landstuhl hospital?

  In Kosovo it was tens of thousands of slaughtered Kosovars in Iraq it is ‘Insignificant numbers of US casualties’.

  In little more than six months of operations in Iraq the US have suffered 7,000, bar two, dead or seriously injured personnel according to the data below: Sum 314 + 6684 = 7,000 - 2.

  Since May 1, when US President George W. Bush declared the end of major combat operations, 90 American soldiers have been killed by hostile fire in a low-level, guerilla-style insurgency. A total of 314 Americans have died since the war began on March 20, according to the Pentagon.

  While most wounded Americans are treated at two military hospitals in Iraq, those with more serious injuries are evacuated to the hospital in Landstuhl, Germany.

  Landstuhl has been receiving an average of 40 to 44 patients a day from Iraq, about 10 to 12 per cent of whom are classified as having 'battle injuries', said hospital spokesman Marie Shaw.

  Since the start of the war, the hospital has treated 6,684 patients - 5,377 after May 1, she said.

  If Marie Shaw is to be believed at this rate one in every ten US soldiers serving in Iraq can expect to be killed or seriously injured because a tour of duty is currently one year. The casualty ratio on Omaha beach in WW2 was no worse though incurred over a much shorter time. This is insignificant?

  The repeating pattern of madness reveals itself and at the heart of this madness lies Phoney Tony: dodgy dossiers about the reason for war - even fed to the CIA - followed by inaccuracies about the war itself and its aftermath: First in Kosovo and now Iraq.

  Do we have the truth about the overall British casualties I wonder.

  We have had nothing but lies from Trust-me Tony and his cronies over Kosovo so why should we expect Iraq to be any different.

  We in the so-called western democracies are being ruled by madmen.

  But Basra light crude keeps flowing into Anglo/American tankers at heavily discounted prices. Cheap oil if one discounts the tens of thousands of immediate casualties mainly Iraqis: of lives, of limbs, of misery for hundreds of thousands.

  In what way did Milosevic use more disproportionate force in his counter insurgency measures against Islamic terror in Kosovo?
  
  Peter Taylor
  Herts/UK

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 9:19 pm
  Pantelija . Considering all the facts you take for granted about Seselj,why? I mean fucking why?? the Quisling Serb Judicial System didn't throw the fucker in jail and prosecute him for his alleged crimes , or does it mean that, what you have in Belgrade now is just a pussys garden . (sorry I'm sick and tired of this bullshit).Do you think that any well born citizen of any given country will be proud knowing that their nationals are delivered shamelessly to be prosecuted by the same ones that destroyed their homeland . Justice has to be administered by the authorities of the place where the alleged crimes were commited , global justice , global trade my ass¡¡ this is nothing but global screwing off the big powers .
  
  M P
  Rep de Panama

• Friday October 03, 2003 at 9:48 pm
  

  Andy and Jared

  Why are we supposed to listen to this conversation?

  What was the haste to remove Clark? Doesn't the ICDSM want a broad support?

  I think the man Krsljanin is right. The ICDSM is not there to implement the will of Milosevic. I can't imagine that he wants to run the assosiation anyway. It is suposed to support him !

  If Krsljanin has Milosevices trust, that's good to hear. Not so good though if he feels pressured to resign and get stomach ache when talking to fellow boardmembers. Of course it is important that Milosevic trusts and supports the board of ICDSM. But it seems a little backward that he should be asked to order the removal of somebody from his post. The ICDSM being as big as it is, doesn't it have any rules to guide them how to deal with this matter of Clark?

  What is it all about anyway? Is this mistrust of Clark a seperat matter from the matter as to what account contributions should be sent? Or are they related?
  
  Ann-Marie Laios
  Sollentuna
  Sweden